April 28, 2008...

Todd Bentley in His Element

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Here is Todd Bentley, the leader of the Lakeland Florida phenomena, doing what Todd Bentley does. Remind yourself that this is what passes for revival within radical Charismatic sects.

 

There is more.  Oh Yes.  Did you know that God had Bambi eyes and exuded the color pink alongwith giant bumblebees? It’s true, just as true as the godly annointing of the Lakeland healing revival.

 Yeah. Just ask the Bambi eyed Jesus (by the way if you aren’t seeing him via regular ‘open visions’ something is probably a little off).  But seriously, with a pledge of only $500 a month you can get partner seating at FFM conferences and maybe, just maybe get to experience the hidden revelations of open visions, glory clouds, and ministering angels made manifest in your life.

Todd Bentley is a heretic.   But heretics aren’t heretics ‘because they don’t line up with my doctrine’. My belief may coincide with the orthodox position, but that is simply inconsequential. The fact that I agree or disagree with a person’s doctrine does not make them more or less of a heretic. They are heretics because they embrace or promote teachings contrary to Christian doctrine–Nicene orthodoxy–which stands as a rule of the faith for the entire Christian church. Claiming to have seen Jesus would qualify Bentley for apostolicity.  If Bentley has literally seen Jesus Christ and been commissioned by him then we should be writing down every word that he says and stapling them into our Bibles. Furthermore, to be a Christian is to be a Trinitarian. William Branham thought that a triune God was expendable. Why would any Christian tradition harbor Branham or anyone who associates themselves with him or his ministry? I simply don’t get it.

Valid healings are a separate issue from heterodox doctrine.  Power cannot equal orthodoxy.  A utilitarian approach to sound doctrine simply won’t do.  Has critical thinking become extinct?  Frankly, if Bentley is ‘renewing the calling of Branham’ then the ‘glory’ being given is not ‘glory’ but false worship. Branham was a modalist who blatantly denied the Trinity. People who support Branham’s ministry are either ignorant or heretical. Those are the only two choices. Branham’s message was sub-Christian at best and anti-Christian at worst. I could not label fellowship with a willing Branham supporter Christian fellowship.

Here is an excerpt from Bentley’s own copyrighted material delivered through ‘Freshfire’ ministries:

I first saw the angel called Healing Revival on December 5 of 2000 in Grant’s Pass. The angel came to me again in Albany the next February. He stood in the church service with his body going through the ceiling of the church. Then the Lord told me the angel’s name and that he was the same angel I saw in Grant’s Pass earlier. God also revealed to me that this angel was involved in the ministry of John Lake, William Branham, and John Knox in Scotland. This angel, the Lord said, is from the North West Healing Revival and is manifesting again as a sign that God is restoring the Voice of Healing revival and opening up the ancient wells.

In our ministry over the last year, this angel has come frequently and on many different occasions. When He comes I get a gift-the ability to diagnose people’s sicknesses with my left hand. At times this angel brings words of knowledge; I get very accurate details from God including people’s first, middle and last names as well as nicknames, the year they were injured, the color of their vehicle and the state they are from. Many other people have also seen or had contact with this angel in the meetings. And whenever this angel shows up the miracles go off the charts. Instead of a few healings, we’ll get three blind eyes in one night or maybe a cripple guy gets out of a wheel chair.

I believe the angel showed up in Albany as a sign that God was endorsing what was taking place and that it was opening up a healing well. Everywhere I have seen this angel the miracles continue after I leave and a healing well is established in that church and in that city. When that angel visits, we have another John 5 Pool of Bethesda experience as God releases His approval. That is why God repeatedly visits Jesus throughout His life-to place His stamp of approval on every stage. After we start to examine this topic, it’s easy to see how important angels were throughout Scripture.

If this is ‘Branham’s angel’, then people–we are not dealing with a friendly.  

To all honest believers who operate within the radical Charismatic movement: 

I’m ecstatic that you found gold dust on your bible.  I’m really glad that your daughter’s broken arm was healed in a fraction of the time that a cast would have taken to allow the bones to heal.  If $10,000 inexplicably appears in your checking account–send some my way, I’ll rejoice alongwith your miracle.  But, if you baptize the ministry of Todd Bentley because of it’s ‘fruit’ then in the name of charity you are linking up with some first rate heresy. Oh and by the way, did you know that he is a convicted child-molester?

28 04 2008

324 Comments

  • quote:
    “Oh and by the way, did you know that he is a convicted child-molester?”

    What??!! :shock:

  • Yeah. Check it out for yourself.

  • Bentley saw an angel of light, a demon. Jesus WITHOUT His glory??! Reverted back to before He died on the cross? What blasphemy!

    BTW, I think the child molestation was when he was a tennager, before he became a “christian”.

  • Does anybody have any idea what the supposed significance of the 10 rainbows is?

  • He most likely made up the part about the rainbows. The 10 kings?

  • I just noticed on his site under the “schools” tab a Joel’s Army internship. Here are some quotes:

    “God is raising up a Joel’s Army—a spiritual army of young and old who will not fight with human weapons but with militant love and the raw power of God. We desire to strengthen prophetic words [huh?] given by many prophets about a huge revival army of millions of radical soldiers that God is training to aggressively take ground for the Kingdom of God under the authority of Jesus Christ.” [emphasis mine]

    Well, at least he’s not denying it unlike Bickle.

    “It’s Todd’s heart to train and raise up sons and daughters in the ministry—those that would carry the transferable healing anointing that is upon his own life.” [emphasis mine]

    Just think, real soon we won’t need doctors because everyone will have the “healing anointing!”

    And, here’s my favorite, under the ‘Discipleship’ tab:

    “From time to time Todd will have weekly associate ministries and friends blast you in the Holy Ghost” [emphasis mine]

    Hey, don’t get slain, get BLASTED! BAM! BOOMBAH!

  • Here’s an article about Joel’s Army if you’re interested:

    http://www.discernment-ministries.org/JoelsArmy1.htm

  • I’m surprised that Emeril has not sued Todd Bentley for his use of “BAM”

    This is getting more kookier, wierder, and more bizarre everyday. And the craziest thing is that the wierder, stranger, and kookier that the people like Todd Bentley, Patricia King, Stacey Campbell, JoAnn McFatter, Bob Jones, physically look, the more and more their followers call it ‘more anointed’?????

    This stuff is not only ‘cyclical’, but is also ‘addictive’ where people jump around from ‘revival’ to ‘revival’ to fulfill their need for a ‘new dance’, a ‘new worship song’, ‘a new prophetic word’, a new ‘ teaching’, etc.

    I always had my doubts about the guy, but they became more known when he went on hiatus due to his health scare a couple of years ago and then he came back with the skinhead look, the multiple piercings, and the ‘unknown tattoos’ all over him. He moves so fast to the point where I can not tell what the tattoos are.

  • Bentley didn’t have the tatoos before he became a “christian”?

    Benny Hinn could also sue him for yelling “Fire!” lol

  • WOW…so Jesus is just like Bambi AND Rainbow Brite!! I wonder where Hello Kitty fits in?

  • In reference to the tattoos

    Bentley in early 2004 at the Toronto Airport Christian Fellowship

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=fFp1tG9z7SM&feature=related

    —–

    Bentley now

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=vCmE21QuP5M&feature=related
    —–

    In both videos, look at his neck and right arm

    —————————————————————–

    Has anyone heard of John Crowder and the New Mystics? this guy is equally if not more bizarre as he in this video talks about Tokin’ the Ghost

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=8JNkER27g0g&feature=related

  • Simplicity,

    Thanks for the link. I read that a while back; but, it’s been a while. A thorough report on the whole Latter Rain heresy.

    My point really is that at least Bentley is being more brazen about it — even if it is sugar-coated a bit. His version still shows its Dominionist roots.

    Mike Bickle on the other hand renames and/or redefines his doctrines to the point that he has an “Affirmations and Denials” page regarding IHOP’s beliefs. To further confuse, Bickle has a version of Joel’s Army who are dedicated to ‘prayer and fasting.’ It’s really hard to keep up.

  • After watching Todd Bentley in action on several YouTube clips I’ve discovered that his style and appearance closely resemble an intinerant prophet who used to drop into my housechurch from time to time. His name is Alan Nord. ‘Al’ (as we knew him) would show up fairly regularly to deliver confusing ‘words’ that tended to polarize our church according to those who supported his ‘word’ and those who were more skeptical. You can read about Alan Nord and his ministry here:

    http://www.charismamag.com/display.php?id=7870

  • thegreycoats
    April 29, 2008 at

    this is some serious stuff. it gives me the willies when ever i hear of folks talking about seeing jesus in a body that has not His resurrected glory. i wont go into the implications of the non physicalness and non humanness of this visitation . and the eyes like bambi and the color pink oy vey . pray for those 2.

  • A healing testimony from the Todd Bentley Lakeland Florida Outpouring

    “I can tell you that the experince at Lakeland… … I felt a strong God like annointing but… now… It speaks for its self.. I was healed for about a 24 period and then it lifted and not in a good way….Now reading old articles… God protected my son from him laying hands on him..I am a very discernful person..I can also tell you I did not go down by a Godly power.. it was a slight nudge.. and not by the Holy Spirit. I am not affiliated with this blog… signed Lee 2…”

    This comment was posted on this article - http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/04/27/todd-bentley-ministering-in-auburndalelakeland-florida/

  • Wow.

    Good post until you throw the child molesting thing into.

    Get some character bro. The guy was convicted of it was a teenager before getting saved.

    Honestly I liked your blog until that point. You crossed a line and need to rethink some things.

    Did you know that Paul the apostle killed Christians at one point? Ya crazy.

  • Deryck,

    I simply stated a fact. You’ve drawn your own conclusions from that fact. I’m not certain the Todd Bentley is ’saved’. I do know that his conviction was prior to his purported salvation experience. I’m not going to assume that Todd Bentley is either elect or reprobate. I will say that he is a heretic NOW though.

    Also, we know that Paul persecuted Christians but not that ‘Paul the apostle killed Christians at one point’.

  • Natrimony,

    Your unreal. Im not sure your saved either.

  • Deryck,

    You seem like an interesting person. Maybe you have some valid insights, I don’t know. I assure you that I am very real. You may not like that but you are going to have to deal with it. Either make a positive contribution to this blog or drive on by.

  • The more I read about this guy (especially the post by the person whose “healing” left after about 24 hours) the more I think about “The Visitation” by Frank Peretti, which I saw on DVD a few weeks ago. I think maybe God had me see that movie at this time for a purpose.

  • Just to let you know, the Kansas City “prophets” Paul Cain and Bob Jones have also chimed in at this event claiming the usual things like–it is a fulfillment of their prophecies, etc.

    Personally, whenever that duo is involved in anything I will run the other way with no further questions asked.

    Thank you for posting the video. It was a timely post as I was curious as to what was going down in Florida.

  • Deryck,

    Yeah, I think it was kind of a cheap shot, but perhaps relevant. Afterall, we do background checks on scout leaders and sunday school volunteers and as a rule would turn away someone who had assaulted a 7 year old.

    I mean, this isn’t the Catholic church!

    -Bill
    (yes, that was a cheap shot).

  • I wonder how we should understand the healings that appear to happening in Lakeland.
    One position is that Todd Bentley is simply a Christian operating in the gifts of the Spirit but since, as above, he clearly has some questionable doctrine (whether heretical or not) I would like to know how Nat, TGC and others would construe the healings.

    Lets assume, as Nat says, that Bentley is a heretic. I am understanding that to mean he is a purveyor of significant non-orthodox doctrine (based primarily on his association with William Brannam and his apparent unwillingness to acknowledge Brannam’s non-orthodox beliefs, especially his disavowal of the Trinity.) Despite being a heretic he may or may not be among the elect (based on post 17 above.) Given all of this, how do we understand the healings?

    I can think of the following understandings of them and would like to know other people’s opinions.

    1.) They are all fake. He pushes people, uses suggestion, plants, etc.

    2.) Some are real (some may still be fake, using the definition above, but some are real, physical healings of truly sick people.)

    2a) They arise from non-Godly sources, however construed (Satan, demons, witch craft etc.)

    2b)They arise from a neutral source. He is tapping into some power of mind, or mind-body connection or something else that is not directly by the supernatural power of God but is also not by spiritual forces opposed to God. There is some evidence that some illnesses can be healed by suggestion, etc.

    2c) They are accomplished by the power of God (the following are loose and not mutually exclusive thoughts under this possibility)
    i. God operates in response to faith. He does not require moral purity or doctrinal correctness to operate.
    ii. God is sovereign, He does what He pleases. He is healing people because He wants to without any other guiding principle such as the faith, moral purity, or doctrinal orthodoxy of those praying.
    iii. God is healing based on the prayers of others. I suspect many people in the room, both people praying and people being prayed for, are orthodox Christians praying for healing plus at this point people all over the world are praying for this revival.

  • Sorry, I mispelled Branham.

  • Eli,

    I think you said it well. The aspect of healings in a revival really befuddle many people.

    Good post.

    -Bill

  • Eli,

    Thank you for thinking below the surface on this and bringing the fruit of your ‘wrestling match’ with the topic. Several of your observations certainly hold merit. I personally see the phenomena as a combination of ‘2′ and ‘2b’. I would suggest “The Religious Affections” by Jonathan Edwards. He was a deeply learned and spiritually conscious man who experienced true revival in his time and also many of the aberrant trappings which come alongwith it.

  • Again, I like this blog. I just think that you took a really cheap shot in brining someone’s stuff back up that was in the past and before salvation.

    Nat - I heard his testimony last night - he talked about the cross, the blood of Jesus, repenting and the forgiveness of sin. To me it sounded like a genuine conversion. I guess you do not see it that way. That is fine with me.

    I just think you sit on a high and lofty perch that can quickly be torn down.

    On another note - I saw some of the healing first hand. They are real. There is a positive with this whole thing other then healings:

    1) People are coming away with a great awareness that God is so big and so amazing that He can do anything.

    2) People have a genuine hunger and desire to see Jesus glorified on the earth.

    3) People are going away from this Lakeland thing with a desire to live godly and love Jesus more.

    I think these are all win win situations.

  • eli,

    Well said! I agree with most all your conclusions regarding the healings. The only thing I would add is that I believe them (if any are real at all - time will tell) to be a combination of all you wrote. Some are fake (suggestions, plants, etc.) and some are real. Regarding the real, yes some may be from a “neutral” source (think “runner’s high” from endorphins excreted in the brain — although this could be argued as Godly. I would deem it a Godly source.), some ungodly, and some Godly.

    However, I would say that any Godly healing did not originate from Bentley. The faith you speak of above would come from the person him/herself being healed or the person(s) praying for others to be healed.

    Bentley is a heretic only in part by his endorsement of Branham. His endorsement of and alignment with Bob Jones alone is enough for me to call him not just a heretic but a false prophet and occultist.

  • Deryck,

    I’ve heard a lot of stuff that sounded genuine. You know what…?? I’ve said a lot of stuff that ’sounded ‘ genuine. But hey Deryck, I would love for my ‘perch’ to be torn down. I would like to fly away from this whole mess. But, until that happens (which your relation of Mr. Bentley’s testimony has not done) I am riveted to the ensuing train wreck of radical Charismatic Christianity exhibited in Mr. Bentley and the aberrancy of his purported revival.
    You say:

    “On another note - I saw some of the healing first hand. They are real. There is a positive with this whole thing other then healings:

    1) People are coming away with a great awareness that God is so big and so amazing that He can do anything.

    2) People have a genuine hunger and desire to see Jesus glorified on the earth.

    3) People are going away from this Lakeland thing with a desire to live godly and love Jesus more.”

    I believe I’ve addressed the topic of how the healing manifestations are a separate issue from the issue of heresy. With that said, in regard to your list of positives, I hope that you are correct. But, I’m really not big on the idea that “a little heresy never really hurt anyone”. I have difficulty believing that your estimation of what Lakeland is cooking up could be accurate due to the high level of poop in the revivalistic brownies that Bentley is selling.

  • Yeah, I’ve been watching the train wreck.

    My impressions of the “Flordia Outpouring”

    1. Bentley is dominionist. Heard him talking about 10
    anointings. One of those was a “kingly anointing”
    which he had/was receiving that week. An anointing to
    rule. (Note the “mantle passing” ceremony on Monday
    4/29/2008 with Kilpatrick and Hill).

    2. Bentley is MSoG. at one point, talking about
    healing (4/25/08), he stated that “we did not have to age.”

    3. Bentley is Latter Rain. Of couse, he invokes the
    holy name of Branham, and also some named angel
    (”healing revival” ;) who he implied also hung with Branham.

    Note: on teaching on his website he talks about
    traveling to heaven and talking with Jesus and
    spending an hour with Paul. That would be necromancy.

    Note: I have heard him speak about spirit travel- taking
    a physical trip to Austrailia without benefit of airlines. He walked on the streets. Who did he talk to there? Any eyewitnesses?

    Note: Video where he talks about an “open vision”
    visitation by Jesus. This was not Jesus in
    his glorified body.

    4. Bentley’s message (4/25/0 8) contained very little scripture. The usual recitation of dreams, propehcies, and
    recounting what God was now doing. I’m not sure the
    bible was ever opened, but I was not paying 100%
    attention. It certainly is not a revival of
    repentance, in the manner of early Brownsville.
    (Note more preaching on Monday 4/28/2008).

    5. Bentley has studied well in the area of self
    promotion. P.T. Barnum school of ministry.

    a. Prophesy or have someone Prophesy the major
    revival 3 weeks before the meeting is scheduled

    b. Then when you get a good crowd, state the the
    propehsy is fulfilled, which in turn brings in
    more crowds.

    c. Ask the crowd how many are from out of state (was
    about 80%). Ever wonder why the locals stay away? Or
    in the best “The Call” tradition, do not involve the
    locals.

    d. Have large banners proclaiming that this is “THE
    FLORIDA OUTPOURING.” At the same time say that he
    “refuses to give the outbreak of Pentecostal
    revival a name.”

    e. Get Charisma (Lee Grady) and GodTV to join in the
    promotion

    f. Have people come on stage with handlers, who have
    already received their unverified healings.
    This is better than risking an obvious non-healing in
    fromt of the camera.

    g. Interupt testimonies by “slaying” them.
    (avoids bad comments)

    h. Ask leading questions - “did you feel the heat?”

    i. Proclaim that people are getting raised from the
    dead but offer no evidence.

    A few observations

    1. Bentley is pushing. I saw one person not going
    down, so he used the classic hand-laid-on-the-forehead
    and take two steps toward the person. Other have
    observed “catchers” pushing on the small of the
    back at the same time.

    Quoting Lee Grady (Charisma):

    After one elderly woman fell, Bentley told the
    audience: “She doesn’t know why she fell down.”
    The woman then laughed and said to him in the
    microphone: “Because you pushed me!”

    2. The “Bam” “whoosh-kaboom” stuff is an affectation.
    What makes it really funny is how the children in the
    chat room have started to parrot it. Funny, or sad.

    3. When he gets really excited he switches into the
    old-timey “God-duh” affection too. No problem with
    that, its just funny.

    4. The guy with the purported Gold tooth (4/25/0 8) seemed unstable. When he asked to take the mike you could tell
    Bentley and the handlers were visibly alarmed. Which
    makes me wonder what a person craving attention would
    do or say to get up on stage. It happens.

    5. He prayed for a lady (4/25/0 8) with a metal pin in her leg.
    Supposedly pins are dissolving at these meetings. Why
    does God dissolve metal pins in legs, but place metal
    fillings in teeth? Just wondering. Any why are the
    gold teeth always molars and not incisors (”Come on,
    give us a good gypsy smile!!” ;)

    I will state emphatically that the doctrinal foundation is not refuted or supported by healings or lack of healings. The Bible tells us that. Seriously, something is amiss here.

    -Bill

  • Bill:
    Thanks for the recap. I’ve seen and heard enough. Anyone remember HBO’s late 80’s documentary “Marjoe;” it should be required viewing for charimastics and revival attendees.

  • My well of pent up sarcassam is going to explode here:

    #16 “Did you know that Paul the apostle killed Christians at one point? Ya crazy.”

    Dude, bro, man, his name was Saul. True story..I understand your point, but for a long time after his conversion and name change, Paul had to convince people that he was one of them and not out to
    have them killed. It is not written but I am sure that not everyone was convinced. This is understandable.

    Nat, TGC, et al,

    This whole Florida Outpouring thing is really got me thinking here. On one hand I have been praying for revival for as long as I can remember. On the other hand the IMO the verdict is still out on Todd Bentley. I think the number one issue I have with him is the Branham association. With that said, I am really watching this one. If this is a real move of God I do not think that God would fault us for being cautious.

    One other thing then I am going to lunch:

    One can argue that a lot of those old revival guys fell but that God used them in spite of them. I can agree to a point. A.A. Allen comes to mind. Here was a guy whose private life was a train wreck, but God used him in spite of it. The funny ting is that I do not believe A.A. Allen was a heretic. I believe that Branham was. In regards to Allen I may be wrong. But from what little I have seen of his past ministry heretical teaching was not an issue.

    So, with that in mind, can God use Todd Bentley in spite of his heretical alignment? Didn’t God use a donkey? :)

    It is my prayer that those healed would remain that way, and that they would serve the true God as a result.

    Blessings

  • Thanks Bill. And thanks Onward for the video.

    Ward, Perhaps Marjoe could weigh in on this phenomenon. Or perhaps he’s sick of the whole “razzle-dazzle” of Pentacostal shenanegans.

    Scripture does say that the antichrist will also do signs and wonders. “Signs and wonders” are not limited to God.

    Bentley is a heretic, plain and simple. He, along with Patricia King and Bob Jones, believe and say that a person can ignore the sovereignty of God and travel to the “third heaven”. The astral travel is accomplished through meditation and contemplative prayer. Anyone who places him/herself above God and His sovereignty is not of God.

  • Chuck,
    I understand what you’re saying, but good fruit does not come out of a rotten tree.

  • >So, with that in mind, can God use Todd Bentley in spite of his heretical alignment? Didn’t God use a donkey?

    Yes indeed, God may be using Todd Bentley to teach (those who have ears to hear) his church that doctrine matters.

    BTW, the donkey, IMHO, was not a heritic.

    We’ve all heard this argument before, and I think it is a “dumb ass” argument.

  • Just funning you, Chuck!

  • How about a contrast to compare?

    In Seattle on Easter weekend over 11,000 people went to a church. there was not room in the building so people stood outside filling sidewalks and parking lots. Speakers were put up so those outside could here the preaching. People were turned away,there was no other place to try to be there. Over 200 people were baptized that day and many more were crying in repentance and asking to receive Jesus Christ.

    This church is not hyping this. They say history will tell if this is a revival.

    http://voxpopnetwork.com/vision/2008/03/24/bath-tisms-and-other-good-news/

    The video is of the baptisms only. down the page is an audio interview the 4th paragraph from the end.

    How does this contrast!

    These are local people coming to Christ - in a local church which can disciple them. The outgrowth of a local church.

    Bentley and Lakeland conference/special meetings quickly hyped as REVIVAL. Most people not local.

    what-cha- think?

  • If I compare the two I know real fast which one I would want in my town or at my church - the Seattle one.

  • thegreycoats
    April 29, 2008 at

    chuck
    yeah God used a donkey to talk to a false prophet, but not to bring a revival. Wesley and Whitefield and Edwards never fell. and as far as i know thats the last real revival the u.s.a has seen. finney being suspect in my mind. dig deep my man there is more to ol tod than you may think. personally what a man does before he is converted matters little to me. i was the king of sinners and still am the worst sinner i know. i wanna see what the man teaches. and what ive seen so far makes me nervous. can God use a heretic? i think not at least not on the scale you are talking about.

  • alright I just have to post this one link.

    check out the popcorn kernels!!!!! (about 1/2 way down)

    http://hubpages.com/hub/Lakeland-Revival

    My heart hurts for our great Lord and Savior. That’s all I can say.

  • From Eli, in comment 23 above, referring to possible sources of the healings, “2b)They arise from a neutral source. He is tapping into some power of mind, or mind-body connection or something else that is not directly by the supernatural power of God but is also not by spiritual forces opposed to God. There is some evidence that some illnesses can be healed by suggestion, etc.”

    I’m not absolutely sure I understand what you are saying here, Eli. But I’m wondering if such things are in fact neutral sources. Yes, there is probably a strong mind-body connection that has effect on health in any person. But how do you tap into that to affect someone else except by the power of suggestion or the endorphin effect which makes someone feel better temporarily? It seems to me that if there is more than that going on, there has to be power coming from some source. And it is obvious, as has been discussed before regarding this revival, that healing can take place from occult sources.

    I guess the bottom line for me would be that this isn’t a way we are told to receive healing in Scripture. There medical means are mentioned, the sick are told to pray, the gift of healing is given by the Holy Spirit, and we are told if we are sick to call the elders who will anoint us and pray in faith for our healing. There is nothing said about tapping into any other neutral sources. Which is enough in itself to make me very skeptical about the validity or safety of this possibility.

  • From the link is comment 40 above:

    PEOPLE ARE BEING HEALED JUST READING THESE REPORTS!!!

    RECEIVE YOUR HEALING NOW!!!!

    PRINT THIS OUT AND USE IT AS A PRAYER CLOTH FOR A LOVED ONE!!!

  • #42 e-mail… hoax letter… send to 10 people and recieve your blessing…

  • Cheryl U,

    “There medical means are mentioned, the sick are told to pray, the gift of healing is given by the Holy Spirit, and we are told if we are sick to call the elders who will anoint us and pray in faith for our healing.”

    Good point. The more I think about this the more points of contention surface in regards to these sort of charismatic “outpourings”. One thought came to mind when I read your post. That Paul, even though he was a tent maker, did not construct a tent to hold healing revivals.He just did it. No hype, no show, no PA, just God and faith. (that was lame humor at best)

    Kena,

    Thanks for the link. I especially like the comment about local church, and local people. I really have to wonder what will happen to those saved after the “glory” lifts.

    Blessings

  • Something I wanted to point out. Even if someone calls a higher power the “Holy Spirit” this does not mean they’re referring to the REAL Holy Spirit.

    Two cases in point. First, I know someone who has a Bachelors (or Masters) in Psychology, a yin/yang symbol on her desk, etc. As I was talking with her of my faith and mentioning the rough background of someone I know who was going through a difficult time, she proceeded to recommend her spiritual “healer” who used reiki and some other things I’ve forgotten (I don’t want to remember). She talked about the “power of the Holy Spirit” who she would call upon when she herself was being demonized. She calls herself a “Christian” but, of course, theres no fruit and she never speaks of the Bible.

    Second, in reading up on kundalini a while back I came across this woman’s testimony of her experiences with kundalini arousal. I’ll spare you the sordid details; but, she kept mentioning the “Holy Spirit.”

    Another holy spirit, another jesus, another god.

  • Lee,

    Exactly!

  • im not affiliated with anything. but your blog is stupid. Your self-righteousness comes out in every single one of your posts.

  • stupid,

    In the Old Testament names were quite often indicative of the person. For example, Jabez meant pain. Perhaps your name suits you?

    Thanks for coming by.

  • Got to love the drive bys.

  • Sigh. I have several friends who are excited about this. One literally left Tennessee on Sunday to go there for a couple of days… Right in the middle of finals (although, he won’t be missing one). A few hours ago, a friend was trying to show me a webstream of this revival that is going on. That would have been an interesting conversation. I think I will somehow end up in a conversation with some of them about this. I’m glad I learned this stuff about Bentley beforehand, especially his connection with Branham, and talk of this angel. False teaching like this disgusts me.

  • I’ve been watching the live streaming expecting to see something new, but have only seen the same old antics– save one. Last night a woman experiencing pain and swelling from her cancer, which must have been located around her abdomen, came to the stage. Mr. Bentley did his thing, but it didn’t seem to work the first time, so he had her stand closer to his pulpit (the force must have been stronger there), and then he had his wife and another woman come out and “curse the cancer out of her.” They literally went up to the woman and cursed at her belly; their faces literally inches away from her stomach until the woman backed off which probably appeared to those in attendance as a touch from “Spirit”. I certainly pray that this woman is healed, but more importantly, I pray that if she isn’t that she will find the grace, truth, and hope of Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior to be sufficient to get her through her dissillusionment and self-doubt.

  • First, I ask this of every blog I read- where is all the true revival, true gospel and life of Christ on this website?

    We need to quit letting angels, rainbows, supernatural experiences (and on the natural- internet, media, films, science, education, music and art)- and other Biblical items/ nouns be stolen by ‘Christians who are scared of being deceived’– seriously, - If you run away from every authentic Biblical experience/item/ Scripture you are going to have to tear up half your Bible! This is how the devil is pilfering the church today- its why when you go to Bible College there is maybe 3-4 degrees- Senior pastor, associate, youth pastor and worship leader. How is God going to just fill the world, do you just think it is through critical blogs where you discuss doctrines?

    if Daniel followed alot of Christians, he would have ran out the palace saying ‘goverment is unholy, unholy, run away!!’ Then he would have written a blog about how unbiblical it was for Joseph in Egypt to serve as Pharoah’s prime minister, while being married to an Egyptian. People on the net are ‘good at disqualifying their own brother’- just like Joseph’s brothers.

    I think you should give it a shot- actually view the revival for a week and maybe consider going. I was there, and found it to be totally opposite to what you wrote- the interesting thing is…. you could be using Scripture to fight Scripture- for example in Acts 2, you would probably use the same Matt 7:15 against Acts 2, judging by your tone. If you want to be totally fair and sincere, tune in for a week or two- but take care. Don’t take shots at leaders/people who actually have more ‘revival’ (the true Life of Christ) than yourself, more souls saved, more orphans helped and more widows helped in Africa. As an African missionary, I think you need to be fair, instead of just critical- for example anyone can have a blog that criticizes leaders… but few people actually go out and serve others. Anyone can tear a house down, but few carpenters can actually build a good house. This doesnt mean we should not use discernment- but please, lets not shoot our own brothers/ soldiers in Christ! Honestly, the way some people talk on the internet (supposed ‘Christians’ ;) they would never want to be ‘talked about’ like that– or their family, friends or churches.

  • John S,

    Thank you for your observations and the consistency with which you apply them to us.

    -r

  • thegreycoats
    May 1, 2008 at

    john s
    i would reffer you to the devotional post on our blog. since you ask where the gospel is. also thats a big assumption to make about us. for instance i am a pastor. so that would make me an elder in Christ church who is observing and critiquing another leader. do i as a teacher of the word of God have the authority to warn others of these things. lastly, your argument about joseph and daniel are well to be kind interesting but in turn not fair. joseph existed before the law was given by moses and it was not in any way disobedient for daniel to serve as head of the magi since God had told the jews in jerhemiah to submit to babylon . it is quite an assumtion on your part to judge how much of the life of Christ we have with in us based on a blog, which is doctrinally sound. saddly you have no idea what we do outside of the blog even if you go to the about us page which is meant to be funny. you my friend have assumed too much. fact is the teaching is bad. the alusions to branham are bad. the sings and wonders mean nothing without the truth of the Gospel. i dont care how good it seems.

  • bereanonthewall
    May 1, 2008 at

    At the end of your post I threw up a little in my mouth.

    Is it any surprise that his mentor is Bob Jones? Another sexual predator?

    I told my husband this in a message a few mins ago:

    Apparently Todd Bentley was a child molester prior to his ministry–honestly, something like that should automatically disqualify you for ministry
    And since he’s teamed up with another sexual preditor– Bob Jones… ay yi yi…

    And Im sure their excuse is “God healed me from it, etc”

    BUT
    I think the consequences of your actions should be NO you are not to be in authority over others, period.

    sadly, its really easy to find a church that will look the other way…

    I dont know if it’s been mentioned because I havent read all the comments but have you been watching the chatroom on his website at all? Apparantly you can type in tongues!!:

    05:00 gabemichael : SHEKABOMBA BAM BAM BAM

  • bereanonthewall
    May 1, 2008 at

    OH wait– Bob Joneses excuse was ‘the devil made me do it’ (sounds like the mantle of Flip Wilson has fallen on Jones)

  • Can anyone tell me why a Canadian would have an American southern accent?

    To John S:

    I’ve been trying to watch it. I have a dear friend who took her autistic son to Florida yesterday, hoping for a miracle. And so I want to know what it’s about so that when she returns, I can talk intelligently about it. I’m watching it now. :?

    Breaking news: Todd just said that Bob Jones told him there was a portal open over Florida that will never be closed.

    Item #2: He also just said that the prophetic word creates reality — as in “Let there be light.” :shock:

    Item #3: Some prophet on stage said that God showed him this is the culmination of all the revivals of the 20th century — Azusa, Latter rain, Jesus movement, Renewal…

    Item #4: Another prophecy that they will build a permanent apostolic revival center in Florida. :roll: I think that means they’re going to start asking for $$$.

    sigh…

  • John S,

    You accuse me of ’shooting brothers’ and ‘taking shots’ But, you’ve come into my backyard and blasted away with both barrels. Please allow me to retort.

    You state this:

    “Don’t take shots at leaders/people who actually have more ‘revival’ (the true Life of Christ) than yourself…”

    Wow John. That’s quite a ’shot’ you’ve taken at me there. But at least it is honestly pointed toward me. Many of your other comments are directed toward ‘Christian bloggers’ ‘Christians who are scared of being deceived’ and ’some people who talk on the internet’. At least give the honor of openly addressing thegreycoats with your rebukes. In other words, don’t be passive-aggressive.

    So we’re working for the devil huh? Have you taken time to examine the actual beliefs of Todd Bentley and any of his handlers such as Patricia King? Even though doing some investigation may be ancillary to your agenda in seeing powerful showmanship masquerading as the miraculous, you would do well to hold such Charismatic celebrities up to the light of Christian orthodoxy. William Branham was a heretic. If Bentley or King endorse Branham, claim his mantle, or the effect of his ‘healing angel’ then they have linked themselves to heresy. I’m afraid that you simply can’t argue with that John. All I can conclude is that you see the ‘fruit’ of the Lakeland phenomena as somehow baptizing false beliefs and teachings. I guess they must cancel each other out.

    In regard to our ‘carpentry skills’: I believe I can speak for each of the three moderators (Devin, myself, and Jarrod) that we don’t spend our lives sitting behind a computer screen dreaming up ways to criticize your favorite revivalistic flavors of the month. Personally, I can’t help but notice these aberrant practices, they fall into my lap. I wish your buddies weren’t even on my radar–we would all be a lot better off.

    With that said, thegreycoats is not primarily geared toward evangelism. We have presented the gospel in several posts quite clearly and (I hope) winsomely. We are under no obligation to defend our sincerity. The way in which we structure our blog is our prerogative. It is a discussion forum where we share our honest ideas, opinions, and defend them accordingly. This virtual world has little bearing on our ‘real world’ levels of Christian charity, service, or willingness to serve. Our words are pointed, emphatic, and we don’t apologize for taking strong doctrinal positions. I for one see that as constructive rather than destructive in this climate of cultural and spiritual relativism.

    John, you come impugning my motives of which you have no point of reference for whatsoever. You offer no valid reply to the facts of my post. Not only that but you are condescending in your tone toward anyone who might question the legitimacy of your current spiritual watering-hole. How dare you sir?

    Postscript: Neither a Christian nor a Jew could definitively confirm that Joseph did anything wrong by marrying an Egyptian or serving in Pharaoh’s court. Those weren’t ‘unbiblical’ activities prior to the Mosaic covenant.

  • These are my thoughts on the whole Todd Bentley thing. I don’t know him personally so I will not directly judge him. However his ministry and theological view points are in full view so I will comment some on that.

    I cannot say that the healings taking place are not real. Are all of them real probably not. Euphoria, adrenaline and the mind can all change the sensations of pain. His gift of healing may be real but I think that his teaching are full of gnostic and heretical beliefs. The thing about gifts are that once God gives them out He can not take them back.

    His alignment with Patricia King, Bob Jones and the rest of them is very disturbing. The talk of angels that only they see, of eagles and the emptying of ones mind, access a “3rd Heaven” and speak to the apostles is wrong. We are to fill the mind with the Word not empty it to allow the “spirit” in. That opens the door for all sorts of influences most likely not holy.

    Meditate on His Word and His truth. Many will come in the name of the Lord with many signs, wonders and other acts and Jesus will spew them out of His mouth because behind the veil that is presented are falshoods.

  • Anna said: Can anyone tell me why a Canadian would have an American southern accent?

    I was wondering the same thing LOL!!

  • Anna,

    As the mom of an autistic child, I have to say that you almost want to jump at any possible chance that your kiddo might be healed.

    When we were still involved in the movement, we were urged to go see Bill Johnson in Albany, OR *the hq for the Elijah List*

    Just a mere day or two beforehand, every one of us got laid out with the barfs and we missed the conference. At this point in my massive greif over Aaron’s autism, I would have done anything— now, I am thankful that we
    a. missed the conference and
    b. that we have a God that can meet us wherever we are
    c. have a God that is still not worried about our son and loves him SO much and is showing us that He is healing him, even though it might not be instantaneous.

    I am willing to say to God “Your will be done– not mine” in this situation– I go into this chatroom on Bentley’s site and see so many commanding healing and commanding God to move— thats simply not the way that it needs to happen. Saying magic words like “WHOOSH KABOOM BAM!,” isnt gonna make anyone healed either.

    God in His infinite wisdom will decide each case as He sees fit. Not as we do.

  • thegreygoats*

    What do yall think about the quotes like:
    “The thing about gifts are that once God gives them He can not take them back.”

    It is something i have heard a lot from charismatics.
    It seems like this is taken from the scripture in Romans that says something like the gifts and the calling of the Lord are irrevocable.

    I believe this is in the context of the Jewish people, that God promises towards them will be fullfilled in someway. I believe when the healing is mentioned in Corinthians is says, “gifts of healings” implying that each healing is a gift, and just b/c someone gets healed doest not meant the next will.

    I think quotes like that encourage the idea that someone can be gifted by the spirit but have bad doctrine even a dark lifestyle, but still operate in the Spirit because they once were given that gift. That seems strong to diminish God’s call to holiness and purity of doctrine. Just wondering what yall thought.

    Adam thanks for commenting, its good for me to think these things through.

  • TLT,

    What do yall think about the quotes like:
    “The thing about gifts are that once God gives them He can not take them back.”

    I’m glad you pointed this out as I was going to comment on it. I’m not sure where this notion comes from; but, here are some scriptures which speak of the gifts:

    We have different gifts, according to the grace given us… [Romans 12:6]

    All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. [1 Corinthians 12:11]

    Since these gifts are given to edify the church, I believe the Spirit can give AND take. Additionally, the Spirit can give a particular gift as a one time occurrence. As merely one example: I know someone who spoke in a foreign time one time and one time only. As a result many came forth and got saved!

    God is sovereign and can do anything He desires.

  • foreign time = foreign tongue

  • cheryl U.
    May 1, 2008 at

    Can anyone tell me where the whole idea of “portals” ever came from? Does it come from Jacob’s dream in Genesis 28? As I understand it portals are also a New Age teaching.

  • cheryl U.
    May 1, 2008 at

    If anyone is interested, here is a link to a Patricia King article that gives the answer to my last question about portals:

    http://www.extremeprophetic.com/archivesitem.php?art=360&c=0&id=11&style=

  • cheryl U.

    I was going to answer your first question before I read your last sentence. Portals are New Age teaching — I don’t not know of any Biblical parallel. Of course, yes, — how can I forget — the ‘prophetic’ will find scripture to twist to MAKE their beliefs seem Christian.

    Just like astral travel (going up to the 3rd heaven), this is just one more blatantly New Age teaching in the ‘prophetic.’ The modern prophetic/NAR/IHOP/Emerging Church will all merge with the New Age teachings outside the ‘church’ to form the end times one-world religion.

  • I should clarify

    Just like astral travel (going up to the 3rd heaven),

    I meant going up to the 3rd heaven at will

  • Bentley is blatantly New Age. Look at his site:

    http://www.freshfire.ca/teaching_details.php?Id=143
    The Lord also showed Todd in the vision, an old Punjabi sadhu (holy man), by the name of Sundar Singh, who lived in India and evangelized throughout the world over a hundred years ago….
    It’s a wonderful life of devotion, humility, daily discipline, worship and contemplative prayer that calls us daily to soak in and seek God’s manifest presence.

    holy man=mystic

    This site has good info regarding Bentley’s Contemplative Meditation:
    http://sheepyweepy.wordpress.com/2008/04/26/todd-bentley-and-contemplative-meditation/

    Susan

  • Cheryl U:

    Portals = new age.
    Malachi 3:10 talks about open windows of heaven, but that does not seem to convey quite the same idea.

    TLT,

    >The thing about gifts are that once God gives them out He
    >can not take them back.

    Standard C’matic doctrine based on one scripture and not the whole. Look at the bigger picture:

    1. A person who walks after the flesh will do fleshly deeds. Giftings possible could remain, but may not glorify God.

    2. God will not be mocked.

    3. Sometimes God takes people home.

    4. Gifts without the fear of God and proper doctrine = disaster.

    Ask Branham. Better yet, have Bentley ask Branham, since he talks to dead people.

    -Bill

    .

  • bereanonthewall
    May 1, 2008 at

    Bill you just induced vomiting again with that last sentence! LOL!!

    Benny Hinn gets power from visitin the graves of Katherine Kuhlman and Aimee Semple MacPherson, so why not have ol’ Todd just talk to the dead folks?

  • cheryl U.
    May 1, 2008 at

    I asked several days ago on one of these threads if anyone could confirm that T. Bentley had said he saw angels as white shafts of light entering people’s bodies. Evidently, this report is true. There is quite a lengthy discussion on it in the comments section as this website:

    http://pjmiller.wordpress.com/2008/04/24/a-false-healing-revival/

    Evidently he said they entered people’s bodies to bring healing to specific areas. There is certainly no Scriptural support for anything even vaguely resembling this that I know of. The only angels that enter people for any reason are the denomic variety, correct??!?

  • Bentley recounting a “3rd heaven experience”
    (According to Bentley there are not dreams or vision, but actual experiences- he claims apostleship because of it)

    Now it could have been anyone, or any thing, but by God’s design as unbelievable as it may sound, I actually saw the apostle Paul come walking toward me onto the bridge. You might be wondering how I knew immediately that it was Paul. I just perceived it by divine knowledge and revelation. Some things you just know.

    People have asked me what he looked like, and so I will attempt to describe his appearance. He was short, not more than 5’1” or 5’2” (I’m 5’6”). He was bald except for a little crown of hair that came around his head. Looking very Jewish with a short, trimmed, white beard, my first thought was of a monk in a monastery! He actually had jolly cheeks and I thought: Paul you’ve got a little weight on you! I mean he wasn’t fat but he looked a little pudgy! Funny, eh? But that’s what I was thinking!

    He sat next to me and he took his hand and placed it across my chest not saying anything. But I felt like I was receiving an apostolic blessing from a father—“For I long to see you, that I may impart to you some spiritual gift, so that you may be established” (Rom. 1:11). While he touched my chest, Abraham and David appeared out of the cloud of witnesses (Heb. 12:1). Although they were very close (and yet somehow at a distance), they weren’t the main focus. They were simply there as witnesses to an encounter.

    http://www.freshfire.ca/index.php?Act=read&status=teaching&Id=189&pid=954&bid=955

    Necromancy

    Deut 18:9-12
    9When thou art come into the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee, thou shalt not learn to do after the abominations of those nations.

    10There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch.

    11Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer.

    12For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

    See also 1 Samuel 28:3-20; 2 Chronicles 10:13, 14; Isaiah 8:19-22.

  • cheryl u.

    I think I heard him talking about this on Friday night.If you have time to kill you might check the video archives

    http://www.ustream. tv/search/ recorded/ title/Great% 20Florida/ newset_first/ 1

    My immediate thought was 2 Cor 11:14

  • bad link, try this

    http://www.ustream.tv/search/recorded/title/Florida/newset_first/1

  • BereanOntheWall,

    You display a trust in our Lord which is truly humbling. The willingness to trust God in the midst of parenting an autistic child is indeed a deeper testimony to His goodness than a trust in spurious revivalistic fervor. Thank you for your input on this blog. Your perspective is well-timed and highly effective.

  • cheryl U.

    In the link you provided on open heaven/portals, Patricia King uses two scriptures which both convey the same thing. That’s the Malachi 3:10 and the Deuteronomy 28:12. Both of these are conditional; that is, if the nation Israel (which was a theocracy in whom God made a covenant) would obey His commands/laws He would send rain (open the [floodgates] of heaven).

    The Matthew 3:16 and Acts 10:38 which she terms “visitations by the Holy Spirit” both refer to Jesus when the Holy Spirit came upon Him. This does not happen to anyone else in scripture.

  • cherl U.

    you wrote Evidently he said they entered people’s bodies to bring healing to specific areas. There is certainly no Scriptural support for anything even vaguely resembling this that I know of. The only angels that enter people for any reason are the denomic variety, correct??!?

    In scripture the only benevolent spirit being who enters a body is the Holy Spirit who indwells Christians. All others are malevolent/demonic.

  • Total Control
    May 1, 2008 at

    Since when did judging others become sound christian doctrine? Even Jesus said “his judgment is not his own”. In my eyes people who judge others are worse than the ones they “claim” to be in the wrong. I hear all this constant nonsense about false prophets all time? Can anyone in this blog name me “1″ TRUE PROPHET that is alive today… or do prophets not exist in your sound christian doctrine??

  • Nat, aww thanks. We’ve seen absolutely AMAZING things happen with this kid in just this past week, even. God is in control and we certainly do our part to help our guy function. The other day I took him grocery shopping with me and he helped me scan and bag the items– it was all I could do to not drive 90 miles over the speed limit to get home to tell my husband that he actually interacted with me and shared emotion with me!

    Aaron’s condition has shown us first hand that we must rely on Him and that there isnt always a *poof* cure for everything. While I would love to see that, yeah, Im resigned to wait if He wishes!

    I think I’ve shared this before over on SOJ a while back, but when he was first diagnosed, 2 of my friends went to MorningStar one weekend. One of them told me that God told her Aaron was going to be healed gradually. A few days later, the other one told me that God told her he was going to be healed instantly– here’s the even more bizarre part– the friend that told me that God told her that he was going to be healed gradually, AGREED with the one that said he was going to be healed instantly!

    That was a real turning point for me in hopes for Aaron’s healing. Dont listen to people anymore LOL! All too often the ‘prophecies’ are what that person wants for your situation. (I include myself in this because I did the exact same thing when I was involved) Whether Aaron is healed on this side of glory is God’s choosing, and I dont need a self proclaimed ’seer’ to tell me His plan– especially when I am in obedience to God.

    I recently got a visit on my blog by the proponants of unleavenedbread.com telling me to check out their website and that one of their kids was healed of autism.

    Sorry, Im not gonna go from one crazy extreme to another!!! LOL!!

    BTW, Nat, that trust surely didnt come overnight– it was a long struggle– and most certainly, some days I just freak out and lose it, but I always come back to the same conclusions LOL!

  • Total Control,

    1. What are you doing right now? Passing judgement? The thing you are accusing us of?

    2. The Word tells us to judge Christians NOT the world, for they do not know Christ and do not know better.

    Dive into these folks’ doctrine– most of us have come out of the sect we speak out about, and we dove into the Word and their doctrine and they were weighed and found wanting.

    That is a good thing, going with the flow and burying our heads in the sand when these folks blatently thumb their noses at the Word of God, would have been amazingly stupid.

  • I dont know of a true prophet— can you point us to who you think it is?

  • Total Control
    May 1, 2008 at

    I’m not judging anyone… just reading comments.

    Romans 2:1
    Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

    where is the scripture that say’s we are to judge Christians and not the world? … and yes i know plenty of true propehts, God say’s if you receive a prophet in the name of a prophet you get a prophet’s reward. I have been greatly rewarded!

  • Total Control
    May 1, 2008 at

    Romans 14:10
    But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.

  • Total Control
    May 1, 2008 at

    1 Corinthians 4:5
    Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

  • Total Control
    May 1, 2008 at

    1 Corinthians 5:13
    But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

  • TC,

    You crack me up. PLEASE go read the verse BEFORE 1 Cor 5:13 and then tell the class what it says.

    Ahhhhhyyyyeeeeeee!

  • If Todd Bentley is a heretic, then who is healing these people in the name of Jesus.

    Todd prays for people to be healed in the name of Jesus.

    And many, many, many people have seen Jesus. Doesn’t make them an apostle. He appeared to the 500 after he rose from the dead, where are their works?

    You’re thinking is too narrow. Jesus said “these signs will follow them who believe.”

    Signs of healings and miracles. What signs follow you, or most believers?

    We NEED the Holy Spirit power in this weak, broken, sick world.

    Todd’s own testimony is of Jesus. He does these things in Jesus name.

    I’m GLAD God is pouring out on His people. We need revivla.

  • Total Control:
    Thank you for the innapplicable bible verses. I will respond to your question (”where is the scripture that say’s we are to judge Christians and not the world?” ;) with the verse that you for one reason or another skipped over when citing 1 Cor. 5:13 (plus I don’t think 5:13 does anything but support the idea of believers correcting/judging believers!).

    1 Cor. 5:12 “For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?”

  • R Hauck

    I’m sure you would agree the following statement is true.

    Matthew 7
    21″Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

    So what is your point?

  • R Hauck,

    >And many, many, many people have seen Jesus. Doesn’t make them an apostle.

    Never said it did. Bentley is the one who claims apostleship on the basis of him having “seen” Jesus. SO you might need to take it up with him. Thanks for your support.

    -Bill

  • I do have a question about healing— is not being healed from a cold or the flu just as providential and miraculous as being healed from something like cancer? Both the cold and flu are common, but are still killers in some– but healing via our God designed immune system and sometimes God inspired medicines– would’t that also qualify as miraculous healing?

    Doesnt that still happen every day in places other than lakeland florida?

    Does God get glory for the “little” things?

    Just a thought… ;)

  • Bill:
    There you go again, using scripture to correct someone’s theology and doctrine…don’t you know you are ruining the fellowship that we have when we just tolerate and keep quiet?! (See post on “In 1985 John Piper hit the nail on the head.)

  • Amanda,

    Learning to be content in whatever circumstance you find yourself in is a real miracle.

    Phillipians 4

    10I rejoice greatly in the Lord that at last you have renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you have been concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it. 11I am not saying this because I am in need, for I have learned to be content whatever the circumstances. 12I know what it is to be in need, and I know what it is to have plenty. I have learned the secret of being content in any and every situation, whether well fed or hungry, whether living in plenty or in want. 13I can do everything through him who gives me strength.

    14Yet it was good of you to share in my troubles. 15Moreover, as you Philippians know, in the early days of your acquaintance with the gospel, when I set out from Macedonia, not one church shared with me in the matter of giving and receiving, except you only; 16for even when I was in Thessalonica, you sent me aid again and again when I was in need. 17Not that I am looking for a gift, but I am looking for what may be credited to your account. 18I have received full payment and even more; I am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent. They are a fragrant offering, an acceptable sacrifice, pleasing to God. 19And my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus.

    I know that God *can* heal your son. I’m not privy to the timing; now, later, or across the river. But I can state emphatically “my God will meet all your needs according to his glorious riches in Christ Jesus. ”

    Blessings on ya’

    -Bill

  • cheryl U.
    May 1, 2008 at

    Total Control,

    Maybe, just maybe, people’s “nonsence about false prophets all the time” comes from taking seriously Jesus and the apostles repeated warnings to to be aware of false prophets!! So….when we see some one that fits the bill, what exactly is it you expect us to do??

    And yes, I Corinthians 5 and 6 both speak of judging people within the church. And if you can’t accept that take a look at the way the apostle dealt with other situations in the church from the book of Acts onward.

  • bereanonthewall
    May 1, 2008 at

    Amen Bill :D !

  • Total Control,

    If you’ll just scan the New Testament you’ll see lots of ‘nonsense’ about false prophets.

    Try here:

    Matthew: 24:4-25 / Mark 13:1-37 / Luke 21:5-36

    Galatians 1:6-9 & 5:7-10

    1 Timothy 4:1-2 & 6:3-10

    2 Timothy 3:12-13 & 4:2-4

    2 Peter 2:1-3 & 3:17-18

    2 John 1:7-8

    And, to me the real kicker:
    2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

  • berean, thank you for your words of encouragement borne from experience with your son.

    You are so right. We are encouraged from the Scripture to pray for healing, always lifting up our needs to the Father.

    And like you, I have learned that He is sovereign, and will do what He will do. That’s why I love that song (is it Matt Redman?) about “Blessed be the name of the Lord” — especially that phrase about “He gives and takes away…”

    It just puts our perspective on Him, and not on our own faith, or our authority, or our demanding of God — all of which I have done in the past, to my chagrin.

    I hope my friend’s son finds healing, but if he does not this side of heaven (as you said!), I hope my friend will be able to handle it spiritually.

  • For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Mathew 24:24

    For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect. Mark 13:22

    Who is doing the healing? Scripture does not specify (as far as I know) who is doing the false prophets’ healings. They SHOW the signs and wonders.

    Scripture also says that GOD will send a strong delusion. Not satan, as I’ve heard it taught.

  • bereanonthewall
    May 1, 2008 at

    Total Control,

    Why yes you are judging! How DARE we come against someone such as Bentley!!

    We’ve done our homework, is all, TC– as you can now probably tell.

  • bereanonthewall
    May 1, 2008 at

    That’s why I love that song (is it Matt Redman?) about “Blessed be the name of the Lord” — especially that phrase about “He gives and takes away…”

    Amen– I love that song– its one I sing a lot! And this verse is so strong– and I often choke on the words because it REALLY IS HARD TO DO!!

    “Blessed be Your name when Im found i