Allen Hood says that at IHOPU you can learn to prophecy thru a camera. No, not to a camera. But, thru one. I’ll leave you to figure that one out. Perhaps it is all part and parcel of an anti-intellectualism which is especially virulent in the radical Charismatic camp (Hood is the ONLY ONE in the ‘faculty’ who has earned an M.Div.). He says, “Students don’t get a degree but do get a media anointing.” A media anointing eh? Sounds like IHOP’s ‘university’ has figured out how to advertise for free.
“A university is an institution of higher education and research, which grants degrees in a variety of subjects. A university provides both undergraduate and postgraduate education.” Now call me unspiritual…but apparently IHOP has faulted on the VERY FIRST definition of a university, which is ‘grants degrees’ (we won’t go into the necessity of postgraduate ed….just too easy). Perhaps just as IHOP is tasked with changing the face of Christianity in one generation so they are also now charged with changing the VERY definition of higher education.
38 Comments
July 14, 2009 at 10:52 pm
I wondered about the university thing. In virginia, you have to have approval by the state council of higher education (schev). Wonder what the law is in Mo.
Guess they can all give each other honorary doctorates now.
July 15, 2009 at 1:20 am
Out of curiosity, I wonder what the tuition cost is to get this so-called “Media Anointing”? Of course, they are NOT an accredited institution. What job options does a graduate have, especially in today’s market?
July 15, 2009 at 5:46 am
Bill,
Bottomline, you’re not a university if you say you are…..doing stuff like that is why IHOP won’t ever be accredited. But then again….they’re above all that.
July 15, 2009 at 5:49 am
Diane,
I think they outline the tuition/fees in the ‘overview booklet’ at the link I provided. I couldn’t download it though because of some adobe problems I’m having.
July 15, 2009 at 2:47 pm
Thanks, Nathaniel. So the charge is $100 per credit hour, beside the other student fees. Pretty expensive anointing…Especially for a diploma they can do nothing with once they leave IHOP.
July 15, 2009 at 5:16 pm
Awwww…c’mon Diane, why ever leave IHOP?
July 16, 2009 at 2:00 am
I guess no one would have to leave if they offer Public Assistance….
July 16, 2009 at 2:02 am
Okay, that’s probably too harsh…
Someone from my former church went to IHOP for the “Prophetic” program. They ended coming back to their hometown without a ministry or job…Oh, and 5 kids….
July 16, 2009 at 3:20 am
They must have been amazingly spiritual people.
July 26, 2009 at 5:26 am
Well I have a family member… who has ‘graduated’ and has their own prophetic ministry now… so since this ‘family member’ won’t have anything to do with me, (because I only read my bible and go to church and am, therefore, only practicing ‘religiosity’) I can only hope and pray! that they’ll be communicating or rather, prophecying through the cameras so that I can see them from time to time.
Or is that NOT how it’s supposed to be done….
July 30, 2009 at 4:28 am
you guys have no idea what your talking about.
Anti-intellectualism? really??… The university itself along with the courses offered logically contradicts your assertion. If any institution is teaching anything with room for reasoning and discussion (I can attest that this FIRST hand, can you?) they are obviously not anti-intellectual.
“A university is an institution of higher education and research, which grants degrees in a variety of subjects. A university provides both undergraduate and postgraduate education.” Now call me unspiritual…but apparently IHOP has faulted on the VERY FIRST definition of a university, which is ‘grants degrees’ ”
apparently ihop didn’t check wikipedia before they named the school… though ihop is not accredited by any agency (yet) ihop does grant certificates of completion which are recognized by many in the body of Christ.
“(we won’t go into the necessity of postgraduate ed….just too easy).”
. i bet you won’t make that statement to the majority of the body of Christ who can’t afford or lack the education to pursue postgrad. Count it a blessing to even be able to have an education. Don’t make that a standard when the bible doesn’t.
That statement wreaks of elitism (never thought i’d charge you guys for this
“Perhaps just as IHOP is tasked with changing the face of Christianity in one generation so they are also now charged with changing the VERY definition of higher education.”
again… wikipedia is your “very” definition? come on. an intellectual like you should be aware of the semantic range of “university” or “higher education.”
Allen Hood is not the only one with a degree.
Diane,
Alot of seminarians that graduate from traditional institutions still run in the job security issues. It’s quite unfortunate but such are the times we live in. The person from your church is not alone.
August 2, 2009 at 7:01 am
Wow! you sure told us. man what were we thinkin ? using wiki to get definitions. stupid us for not using our thinkin caps again. I didn’t realize you could just call any old bible study or prophetic instruction class or course a university. if thats the case then welcome to Thegreycoats U . you wont get a degree but you will get a certificate in the mail and maybe even a tee shirt or something. Now I know it’s easy to throw the word elitist around these days but really, we arent the ones who are going to “change the face of Christianity in one generation” we are not the super prophetic movement that is only right in there prophecies 60% or less of the time . We are the other guys. Oh by the by has IHOP really been called to change the face of Christianity in a generation? I mean its about time. the last 2 generations that were called to do it failed epically maybe you guys will get it right.
hugs and kisses
August 3, 2009 at 5:21 am
Charismaniac,
Touched a nerve eh?
Maybe Webster’s is good enough for you:
“an institution of higher learning; specif : one made up of an undergraduate division which confers bachelor’s degrees and a graduate division which comprises a graduate school and professional schools…”
Huh, go figure, I guessed Wikipedia carried more weight with the IHOP crowd anyway since me and friends of mine were publicly targeted on the entry for Mike Bickle with derogatory remarks. But I’ll play your game you rogue:)
‘You guys have no idea what your talking about’…a bit of hyperbole just to get the blood racin’, no?
Words such as ‘logically contradicts’ and ‘obviously’ don’t counteract the fact that you’ve made up your own definition of university which is ‘an institution teaching anything with room for reasoning and discussion.’ Maybe you should attempt to edit the Wikipedia entry for ‘university’, hmmm?
A certificate of completion huh? That’s fine, but isn’t that a piece of paper, “Our goal at the end of 4 years is not that our students will get a piece of paper with a stamp or a degree on it.”—Wes Hall, Provost and vice president of academic affairs at FSM
This statement is reactionary, logically, and obviously geared to appease those who never had no use for no book larnin’ they just want to speak in the prophetic realm of flowin’ in the spirit. But its good to know that IHOP does secretly ape authentic universities by giving out marks of achievement.
Um, the post-grad remark was aimed at IHOP’s failure to offer a post-graduate program (thereby negating the VERY definition of university—according to Wikipedia and Webster that is), not any one person’s failure to obtain a post-graduate degree. If we go by the Charismaniac definition of university then, yes, my local coffee shop would count…..and they do give pieces of paper out, for free mind you, from cube shaped dispensers on every table.
Read my post again. If you do, you may find that my words obviously and logically contradict the setting of any sort of universal standard of schooling for the wider body of Christ (however I do think proper training in the use of the word ‘logically’ would be well served).
What next? Semantic range….ah yes….hmmmm…….a university is, generally whatever? Yes, there are dog obedience schools also claiming the title of university out there…..I get the colloquial value of the term. But you know, calling a trashman a sanitary engineer won’t wipe the stink off his uniform. I’m not goin’ down the pomo epistemological rabbit hole, nope.
Lastly, I am not against unaccredited Bible schools. That is hardly the point of my post. I do believe it is disingenuous for a seminary, Bible college, or school to claim the title of university…it is tacky, pretentious and simply laughable to any honest scholar.
I did overlook that Gary London also received a Master’s degree in Theology from Christian Life School of Theology. Allen Hood earned a Master’s of Divinity from Asbury Seminary. Out of a leadership team of 8, two leaders have the minimal requirement needed to teach religious studies in a community college. Wait a minute though, CLST is unaccredited (you don’t even need a high school diploma to attend), so…..sorry Gary couldn’t be a “professor” at anywhere but IHOPU. But I grant to Charimaniac that two is better than one and apologize for my oversight.
August 23, 2009 at 6:11 pm
Just want to point out that the media school does offer hands-on experience with equipment, experience which is difficult to get elsewhere.
In the media realm a degree is not nearly as respected has hours behind a camera.
August 28, 2009 at 12:52 am
Thanks for that David. I’ll take your word for it.
September 2, 2009 at 4:12 pm
IHOP is actually about to launch a post grad program in conjunction with two rather reputable universities. (ones you would approve of)
We are also months away from legitimate accreditation. The teachers and professors (NOW) admittedly not a few years ago- have degrees and post grad degrees. In other words formal education.
It’s a growing process, I understand your well warranted skepticism now, but check back in a year or two I promise your skepticism will be curbed a bit. (while I’m sure still linger, if it didn’t I’d be dissappointed)
And yes David is right- students in other media schools are leaving those schools to come here because they get instant live TV (on your favorite channel!) experience. Which very few schools produce- you usually have to get on a waiting list at a TV station for a year just to be an intern that gets the camera guy coffee to get any type of experience
Love peace and hair grease- Z
September 3, 2009 at 4:28 am
zack,
There are post-grad degrees and then there are post-grad degrees. A Masters in “prophetic camera operation” (Those in the industry could call it the PCO) would surely be a niche market. But there ya go….God TV….man……….a lucrative market indeed.
September 18, 2009 at 1:20 pm
I really appreciate constructive criticism. There are too many folks who just walk blindly through life and never question anything they read. Thanks, greycoats, for keeping IHOPU in your sights and prayers. We need objective, well-informed opinions from people who know what they are talking about. You hold our feet to the fire and keep us striving for excellence. One small oversight that you may want to correct – at least 5 IHOPU faculty (in addition to Allen Hood) have masters degrees from Asbury Seminary – that doesn’t qualify them to teach at a university level – but it does speak to the issue of being anti-intellectual. One other faculty member has (in addition to the ATS degree) a DMin from Trinity Evangelical Divinity School (Affiliated with the Evangelical Free Church). And yet another who teaches in the music academy has her PhD. So, you may want to update your data base as you keep tabs on the growth and development of IHOPU. It is a work in progress and with your help, we will get better.
September 29, 2009 at 6:36 am
I think IHOPU is one of the few colleges that have it right.
It’s all heart knowledge, and in the end, God’s not going to ask if we had a bachelors, but rather how we lived our lives to glorify Him.
October 1, 2009 at 9:08 am
They are accredited through ORU.
October 2, 2009 at 2:24 am
Katee |What is the difference between head and heart knowledge ? I am stumped. Does one just feel heart knowledge ? I for one find that whats in my head tends to effect my heart , but who am I. For the record I went to an unaccredited Bible college. It was called an unaccredited Bible college. They weren’t calling it a university just a school. I have no degree in anything. While I would agree that Father will not be asking if we had a degree I find that comments like that prove what Nat’s hitting at more than refute it.
Be blessed.
October 3, 2009 at 7:35 am
Tom Mills, Katee, Jeff, Zack et al,
While you guys are singing the praises of IHOP, Allen Hood and Mike Bickle, could you please explain to me why this ‘ministry’, why the “older and wiser” council at IHOP would counsel certain members to cut off all communication with non-IHOP supporting family members?
And Jeff, ORU doesn’t list IHOP as being accredited. But if you can find documentation to back that up, let me know.
I’m just amazed everyone at IHOP can do the fluffy talk and then look down their noses at anyone who isn’t (eh hem) growing in ‘the’ prophetic. Just a tad lacking in love guys.
SP
October 6, 2009 at 4:05 am
Tom,
I was aware of some of the Master’s degrees. My information was gleaned from the faculty profiles on IHOPU’s webpage. Perhaps that has changed, been updated since my post, or there are unlisted faculty/staff.
Asbury huh? Seems to be quite the IHOP connection there. Might have to dig a little deeper on that one….might be a good story lurking.
October 6, 2009 at 4:09 am
Katee,
If you will simply notice the tenor of my original post; and then attend to my reply to Charismaniac you will see that I steer wide of attaching any sort of salvific significance to higher education.
October 6, 2009 at 6:10 pm
I was reading Luke last night – someone help me with where this scripture’s located – and it noted where Jesus said ‘many will come to me in that day talking about casting out demons, doing miracles etc. and then he says,”depart from me, I never knew you”.
That reminded me sooooo much of IHOP. A lot of big talk about growing in “the” prophetic (never have found that one in my Bible) and Joel’s Army (same thing – it’s not in there either) and the list goes on. But the ONE thing that I read that really, really struck me – pricked my heart you might say, is where Jesus says we must come as children. And where He says we MUST walk in love.
I guess what has me totally stumped is how can the IHOP leadership convince someone that cutting off all ties (ALL ties) to their family is in God’s will? Like doesn’t that totally go against scripture?
It just doesn’t line up with God’s word – and yet Mike Bickle and Allen Hood are viewed as “godlike” though you’d never get any of them (IHOPers) to admit it.
OH SADPARENT! How can you say that? I had a long conversation, several actually, with a former IHOP leader who got booted because he dared to question Mike Bickle’s teachings out loud.
SP
October 17, 2009 at 11:44 pm
I am going to be going to IHOPU in the Fall of 2010 to the music school and I’d love to chime in on this public blog
I want to also say that I too appreciate constructive criticism, and love testing things against God’s word because it’s absolutely necessary in all things, so thanks for that.
I have NEVER heard anyone say that believers need to cut off ties with any non-supporting family members. My family isn’t saved, and it’s not an easy thing to go through, but I’d never cut them off and never will. If they ask me to do that and it’s not biblical, then I would surely leave. I have never heard of anyone doing that, and I know quite a few people who go to this school, seeing as I went to the summer camp and many of the councilors were from IHOPU.
I’m sorry you guys have issues with the name of the school, and that it’s such a big deal. I personally thought it was a little cheesy, but not enough to complain about.
I’ve never heard anyone look down on someone that isn’t interested in the prophetic. Sorry if anyone has…
I don’t know how some of you can say that IHOP is lacking in love when the whole point is about love and one of the biggest things Mike emphasizes in his preaching is the greatest commandment and the second that is like it, loving God and loving your neighbors from this overflow of the love of God..
And Joel’s army is absolutely a biblical term. Maybe you should look in Joel.
The difference between having head knowledge and heart knowledge is that with only head knowledge and having no real experience with connecting with the heart of God and His delight over us, having head knowledge alone doesn’t satisfy.
That doesn’t mean you should only have times of worship where you listen to you heart alone, but IHOP promotes combining the Word and your heart experiences.. testing what your heart says and what you feel God is speaking in your life against the Word.. if that makes sense..
I’m quite amazed at the accusations people are making. It doesn’t feel very much like it’s being done in love. I’m terribly sorry if any of you have had bad experiences with people from IHOP or IHOPU, but I think some people on here are making generalizations about students that go to that school and go to IHOP…
I’d be interested in reading about criticism from someone who’s ACTUALLY been there. So if anyone like that is reading and wants to comment as well, I’d be delighted.
October 20, 2009 at 4:23 am
Zack
“We are also months away from legitimate accreditation.”
I take this as meaning that the “university” is not legitimately accredited. Which means it is not eligible for exemption under Missouri 6 CSR 10.5.010 (3) (A) (4).
And presumably, since it is calling itself a university but is not offering post-graduate degrees, it is not likely operating with a certificate of approval from the state. Or is it?
If it is not, it it in violation of Missouri 6 CSR 10.5.010 (2) (C) which states
“No proposed new school may operate
without the issuance of a certificate of
approval to operate.”
and is therefore, under Missouri 6 CSR 10.5.010 (2) (D) (4), forbidden to commence “any instructional activity.”
Wowsers, I sure hope you guys are “rendering unto Caesar.” You are not listed on the Missouri DHE website.
http://highered.mo.gov/ProgramInventory/search.jsp
Maybe you or Tom could shed some light on this.
-Bill
October 20, 2009 at 4:51 am
-more-
There is a provision for a religious exemption
Missouri 6 CSR 10.5.010 (3) (B) (3) (A).
“A not-for-profit school owned, controlled, and operated by a bona fide religious or denominational organization that offers no programs or degrees and grants no degrees or certificates other than those specifically designated as religious degrees or programs shall be exempted upon satisfactory evidence of…”
However, that exemption must be applied for.
I’m sort of curious about this – has such an exemption been obtained?
On the lighter side, can a not-for-profit school offer courses in prophecy?
-Bill
October 20, 2009 at 5:11 am
Nicole,
You said you’d never heard anyone say that “believers” need to cut off ties with non-supporting family members.
OK, well let me say this: I am a believer in Christ – a born again believer. Yet my grown child was counseled to cut off “all” communication with me “by older and wiser council”. “No phone calls, no e-mails, no surprise visits…for one year..at least”. “And by doing this, God will bring about restoration.”
Nicole, that was two years ago…and you’re absolutely right – that is not biblical. Not at all.
You’d said you would be interested in reading about criticism from someone who’s ACTUALLY been there. I recommend you check out this blog: http://www.gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com That person has definitely been there.
SP
October 20, 2009 at 10:59 pm
Ever seen this site?
http://truthspeaker.wordpress.com/category/ihop/
October 26, 2009 at 12:23 am
Bill,
I wonder how you would interpret the fact that “churches teach” people every week. Some of them have tax-exempt status, some don’t.
With the current climate in DC against free speach, how do you see that coming down?
October 26, 2009 at 1:50 am
Jake,
That’s not a problem, the Missouri laws (as would be expected) do not regulate free education. Law have been enacted to regulate schools which charge an issue degrees or certificates – to address the issue of sham schools.
And any church-related post-secondary school (with tuition) should be able to do the homework and get the exemption.
Laws regulating higher education are not in place to regulate content but rather as a consumer protection.
That being said, the hate-crimes bill does give one pause.
November 7, 2009 at 6:25 pm
http://gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com/category/bridal-paradigm/
I found this site a little while ago… thought you might be interested in some of it….
November 8, 2009 at 5:59 am
Tim,
http://www.gospelmasquerade.wordpress.com is phenominal. I’ve read things from others who have written -telling of their time spent in IHOP, but this, THIS is words from the ex-IHOP intern’s mouth.
I’d researced the many cult aspects, but finally I read something written by someone who went through it and then had their eyes OPENED.
Talk about energizing my prayer time for my son! Worked like a B12 shot.
SP
November 8, 2009 at 5:32 pm
Also, this just came my way… read the “prophetic” word from Mike Bickle of the “Kansas City Prophet Days”
http://www.apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS/kingdom_violence.htm
November 9, 2009 at 8:06 am
TimH,
Thank you VERY much for that ‘apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS’
That was excellent.
My son, prior to cutting me off, was so loving, caring and biblically sound in his beliefs. Since Mike Bickle et al have taught him so many SPIRITUAL things, he’s changed 1 0 0 %. Mama’s only “practicing religiosity” according to him. This is what this “ministry” has taught him. IHOP has counseled him <-per his last letter.. to cut off ALL communication with mom for "one year at least". That was in 2007.
You don't need a college degree to do that.
Let me add that prior to his involvement in Contemplative 'prayer', he was a loving son.
Play with demons and you'll get burned–every time.
You also do not need a college degree for Contemplative… imagine that!
SP
November 10, 2009 at 2:34 am
Sadparent,
I was one of those caught up in the whole Charismatic/Vineyard/IHOP/Contemplative/
Heresy of the Day/Movements. I also grew up in a conservative Pastor’s home, and graduated from a conservative Bible College.
God has a way of continually hammering away at any idols and false teaching that are put in His place. It took a lot of time for me, but I gradually began to see the inconsistancies, legalism, bad fruit, and downright dishonesty and harm that was going on. It was a very rude and painful awakening, but I thank God for every bit of it!
I honestly believe that your son will eventually come to the same place…you’ve given him a good foundation, that will always be in the back of his mind. I think he just needs to experience the reality of what’s really going on. When he does, it will be very painful, so just love him through it.
You will continue to be in my prayers!
Diane
November 10, 2009 at 4:01 am
Diane,
You said, “you’ve given him a good foundation, that will always be in the back of his mind”..I am trusting God on that one. My son and I used to be very close – able to discuss just about anything with each other. I am continually amazed that he bought into all of the IHOP teachings – Joel’s Army, Bridal Paradigm, etc. etc. I am trusting God at His Word.
I remember him standing in my kitchen back in 2006 telling me that MY DAD had cancer because HIS DAD had committed suicide. He quoted something out of the OT where God said He would visit the curses of one generation to another.. THAT was an IHOP teaching! They left out the part that said, “visit the curses of one generation to another OF THOSE WHO DESPISE ME”. Whoops! My Dad served the Lord right up until the day before he died.
Join me in prayer, Diane. I’m praying a hedge of thorns around my son and his wife. I am asking God to remove the blinders from their eyes.
Your kind thoughts are greatly appreciated.
SP