Anything you wanna ask us ? This is the thread for it. Well… Ask away.
-
Recent comments
Pat on Revenge or Repentance? beyondgrace on More from our friend and new m… beyondgrace on Revenge or Repentance? matthew on More from our friend and new m… Timh on More from our friend and new m…
40 Comments
February 15, 2009 at 7:30 am
Glad you are back.
Question: Lately I have heard people in the prophetic movement talk about the “Roman Gospel” and “Roman Apostles”. They were not referring to the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Do you know where they are getting this?
thank you, desean
February 15, 2009 at 8:28 pm
No but my best guess would be the gospel of luke. as to roman apostles…I honestly can’t say. If they don’t mean paul and barnabus then…. maybe they are reffering to the fathers of the early church. Maybe. If they are reffering to something else which isn’t beyond there ability then they could be in some trouble. there are only four gospels recognized as scripture period we can’t go back and re make the cannon unless we are going to admitt the Holy Spirit made a mistake. Nor can we name other apostles than the ones we have named. I am curious what they are referring to and shall give it a look. However i am at the moment inclined to think they are probably attempting to sound educated by referring to the Gospel of Luke, and to paul. what leads you to believe this is not what they are referring to?
February 15, 2009 at 11:15 pm
They were making the point that the words ‘gospel’ and ‘apostle’ were both common words of the Roman Empire. The conquering Romans would send ‘apostles’ into the conquered land to spread the ‘gospel’ of the Kingdom of Rome. I was just curious where they came up with that idea. I have not been able to find it anywhere but may be looking in all the wrong places.
Also, here in CA the MSOG is alive and well. It is not unusual for young people from Bethel and Neighborhood CMA church in Chico to talk about by passing the sin nature.
desean
February 16, 2009 at 6:28 am
yeah the word is apostolos which means basically messenger. its a helenistic greek word. we get apostle from the word. and i dont know about the euongellion of rome bit but it dont it is not too far fetched of an idea. I would say the words themselves weren’t too uncommon. but i still dont see the point. The words have since evolved to carry a great meaning. Just because they were common enough in rome doesn’t mean that we use them commonly or that they carry the eact meanings they used to. we say messengers not apostles when we send messages when we say apostle in todays world it carries an uncommon wieght. So flesh this out for me why are they even trying to make this point. it was a common word but so what? i am not following.
February 17, 2009 at 6:25 am
desean,
I’m afraid I would need some sort of context in order to answer these questions.
February 17, 2009 at 7:22 pm
I am so glad we are back here and very happy you guys are back on line.
Makes my heart pitter pat with joy…..
Yahoo!!!!!!!!!!!
February 17, 2009 at 7:29 pm
MSoG and Dominionism is alive everywhere not just CA. There is a church is a small town close to where I live, (4Square), where the pastor stood up and told the congregation that he did not support the Todd Bentley’s or Bethel Church and the teachings of the KC Prophets, etc. etc.
He has lost one member of the staff that moved the family to Redding to attend Bethel and there has been a split in the church and many have gone to a home fellowship to continue in the “apostasy” that they follow.
I feel really bad for this pastor. He and I have talked and he has wondered what has happened to Holiness and the truth of the Gospel in these groups. It was a question that he knows the answer to, but is sadden that even after his preaching from the word as he has in the past, that these people could not and do not want to be in line with proper hermanuetics.
February 18, 2009 at 5:20 am
IWT,
Good to hear from you too dude.
February 19, 2009 at 4:50 am
You guys — welcome back.
Seen this?
http://thechurchofjesuschrist.wordpress.com/2009/02/02/parents-of-dead-baby-were-ihop-members/
February 19, 2009 at 3:50 pm
das1217
Yeah,
I’ve confronted some IHOP blogs with this very thing. Thanks for keeping up.
February 19, 2009 at 5:59 pm
I appreciate the link. I think that what y’all are doing is an excellent work.
March 10, 2009 at 3:58 am
Guys, could one of you email me. I need some help.
March 12, 2009 at 3:10 am
therodofjah@gmail.com is my email. i dont have yours.
May 19, 2009 at 12:46 am
I’m wondering what you all think of the Notre Dame Graduation hoopla. I don’t want to get into the same abortion issue that caused you to have to retreat back to WordPress, but I thought it would be interesting to hear your perspective.
I heard Obama’s speech. My impression was that he is a VERY slick talker, and can easily dissarm his opponents with his “Getting along” rhetoric. However, I was thinking…what if during the Civil War, instead of eradicating slavery, people did then what Obama is suggesting what we now should do about abortion…”We don’t agree on the slavery issue, but the landowners have the right to choose under the Constitution. Let’s just work together to make sure that the slavery population is decreased.”
May 19, 2009 at 4:15 am
I’m pro-life. So are all faithful Catholics. That about says it.
May 19, 2009 at 1:57 pm
I know that you are, and that faithful Catholics are. I’m glad that there was an outcry from the student body; it gives me hope to see that others are speaking out. I do think it was ridiculous for protesting parents to get arrested; after all, they are the ones footing the bill for their children to be the registered students.
May 20, 2009 at 8:03 pm
http://immutablewordministries.blogspot.com/2009/04/divine-intersection.html
Nathan,
I know you have gone to the other site to read some of this stuff. If you still are…
Didn’t know if you’d be interested but the man that I enjoy posting his writings, J.A. Matteson, now has his own blog site… see above
June 21, 2009 at 5:24 am
Nathan,
Am I right to assume you are moderator? Is it possible to withdraw my previous comment? I am not sure I should have posted it as the more I have read I am now thinking you all have a lot of insight into IHOP but were never a part of it meaning my post would not necessarily have been appropriately worded. I tried to figure out how to contact the moderator directly but have been unable to do so.
Sorry for this and thank you for any help,
elizabeth
June 23, 2009 at 5:13 am
No prob Liz. And yes I am a moderator.
June 23, 2009 at 5:41 am
Thank you, Nathan. ~elizabeth
July 6, 2009 at 4:25 am
Is the Systematic Theology of L Berkhof of a reformed view point? Does it line up with the views of the OPC?
desean
July 6, 2009 at 4:28 am
Have you read Reformed Dogmatics by Herman Bavinck and do you agree with his view?
desean
July 6, 2009 at 2:50 pm
Berkhof would line up quite nicely with the OPC. Bavinck is quite a read…no I have not read Reformed Dogmatics…yet (note: Bavinck would definitely be in line with any conservative Presbyterian denomination as would Berkhof).
July 6, 2009 at 7:59 pm
Nate,
Thank you very much for your answers. My copies of Bavinck are due this week.
For the past 18 months I have been attending a Baptist church with great people. However, the pastor, an adjunct professor (with a doctorate) at a very liberal seminary in SF was quoting NT Wright and recommending his books. He had quoted from Donald Miller’s Blue Like Jazz’ and something from Madam Guyon. Six times I privately questioned his use of questionable stuff but his private response, although very gracious, was that he was:
“seeking to ‘hate what is evil and cling to what is good.’ I want to be able to mix it up in the world of ideas, able to point to what is true and beautiful while rejecting what is false.”
He never seemed to point to what is false. Also, can you swim in dirty water without being affected by the crud? As I watch, I see a slide to the emergent side of life. The last sermon I heard was a great history lesson but with the exception of recommending that the congregation read through one of the gospels, no Scripture was given or discussed.
I am now checking out a Reformed church from the RCUS which is south of town. I love to hear the word of God preached.
thanks again, desean
August 4, 2009 at 8:16 pm
http://www.charismamag.com/index.php/prophetic-insight/22787-discerning-the-times
I put this here because I didn’t know where else to post it. Have at it folks….
Tim H
August 4, 2009 at 8:17 pm
Discerning the Times
Tuesday, 04 August 2009 12:00 AM EDT Rick Joyner Newsletters – Prophetic Insight
Editor’s Note: The following word is part 35 from a series of messages by prophetic minister Rick Joyner about discerning the times we are living in. You can view the preceding and subsequent messages on his Web site at morningstarministries.org.
Newsweek magazine recently boasted that Christianity in America is dead. This slap in the face to the American church served only to wake it up. Believers took the comment and held it up before the Lord as Hezekiah did with the boasts of the Assyrian general against the Lord (see 2 Kings 19:15-19).
It is encouraging to see Christians responding to the continuous assault from those who hate or reject God. Many of them are arising to proclaim that this is not a post-Christian America but a pre-Christian America because we are going to have a revival in our nation that eclipses all others.
True Christianity does thrive under persecution, but it was hard to imagine just a few months ago how fast Christians in America would unite and mobilize. And that was only in preparation for persecution. When real persecution comes, we can expect an even greater awakening. It is encouraging to see evidence that the body of Christ in America is responding in the right way to the actions against it—resolving to stand with courage and boldness against the rising darkness of the times. In the past, we have had visions of a coming great awakening in America, and now we are seeing proof that there are strong foundations for it to be built on.
It is now possible to perceive that America will not only recover her freedoms and basic moral fabric but also emerge from these times stronger and much wiser than ever before. The church in America is awakening from her slumber, and it is going to get exciting, but we must also expect many to fall away during this time and not be discouraged about it.
The emerging battle over religious liberty and freedom of speech in America is going to be won or lost by Christians, but as in any war, there are likely to be some defeats before victory. George Washington led an army that had been defeated time and again for almost six years, but he and his men did not give up. They remained ready to take bold action when the opportunity came to win the ultimate victory.
In a similar way, we must resolve to fight for the worthy cause regardless of whether we are suffering defeats or winning victories. It is not only about victory or defeat but also about the cause for which we are fighting. If it is a worthy cause, we must resolve never to surrender and never to give up the fight until there is victory. Therefore, clearly defining the cause is one of the most important issues right now.
The ultimate purpose of the church at the end of this age is to proclaim the gospel of the kingdom throughout the world. Jesus said the end of this age could not come until it had been preached in every place. Spreading the good news is what we must resolve to do regardless of the opposition.
Just as the first apostles did when the government of their time demanded that they stop preaching and teaching in the name of Jesus, we must declare that we will obey God rather than men—as we must always do when the two are in conflict. We must settle this issue in our hearts right now. If we are not willing to pay the price required to be faithful and obedient to the Lord, then as the Lord Himself taught, we are not worthy of Him.
For the last few decades, the most prolific message in the church in America has been about how the Lord would bless us—mostly with money or possessions. This emphasis must change. It is now time for courage and sacrifice for the sake of His gospel. It is time for an emphasis on the words of Jesus, such as those we read in the following Scriptures:
“‘If anyone wishes to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever wishes to save his life shall lose it; but whoever loses his life for My sake shall find it. For what will a man be profited, if he gains the whole world, and forfeits his soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul? For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds’” (Matt. 16:24-27, NASB).
“‘Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household. He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. He who has found his life shall lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake shall find it’” (Matt. 10:34-39).
We will find our lives if we will lose them for His sake. Even if our physical lives are taken, a better life awaits. Christians should not only die better than other people but also live with the hope of eternity so that we live the life of the cross, a truly sacrificial life that does all things for the sake of the gospel. The church in America now has one of the greatest opportunities to do this that we have ever had. Do not miss out on it.
About the author: Rick Joyner is the founder and executive director of MorningStar Publications and Ministries (morningstarministries.org) based in Charlotte, North Carolina. He is also the author of numerous books, including the best-selling The Final Quest and a recently updated version of Overcoming Evil in the Last Days (Destiny Image).
Prophetic Insight is a weekly bulletin offering timely and relevant messages for the body of Christ from recognized prophetic voices. It is prepared by Maureen Eha, features editor for Charisma magazine. If you’d like to share a message with Maureen, send it to charisma@strang.com This e-mail address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it . And please spread the good news by sending this e-newsletter to your friends.
Posted by Tim H
August 5, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Well, I’m glad he’s saying that people need to turn away from the “bless me” mentality. Although, I think his idea of how America will turn back to God & morality is a bit too MSoG-ish for my taste. I think his “prophecy” will fall into the 40% vs. the 60%.
August 13, 2009 at 8:09 pm
…we are going to have a revival in our nation that eclipses all others.”
Oh yeah, the billion souls saved nonsense. Well, he may well be right; that is, many will have false conversions to his apostasy. Just like lemmings.
August 17, 2009 at 2:31 am
One of the many things that bothers me is that when such “prophecies” are given, they are never retracted later when they do not come to pass. I’ve been in meetings where some very grandiose things were foretold, and the absolute opposite happened instead (A common occurence in my past experience). No one ever discusses this; it just gets shoved under the rug.
August 25, 2009 at 11:44 pm
Hey guys,
It’s been a while, I haven’t been following all this for the best part of a year now.
I saw this on morning star web site this evening.
About Bentley’s Restoration
http://morningstarministries.org/Articles/1000045589/MorningStar_Ministries/Media/Special_Bulletins/2009/Special_Bulletin_17.aspx
What do you all make of it?
Cheers
Scott
August 26, 2009 at 10:48 pm
Dated 3/09… Old news….
August 28, 2009 at 12:57 am
McQuaker! Wow……..I make not as much of it as I would have a year ago.
September 7, 2009 at 7:01 am
And it continues… http://news4themasses.wordpress.com/2009/08/25/woe/
September 11, 2009 at 4:28 pm
I was just kind of bouncing around and decided to check this site out because of this post I had read,,,
Miriam Franklin in need of prayer
« on: Today at 06:10:27 AM »
——————————————————————————–
Recent update on her blog by someone who know her, perhaps her husband. At any rate Miriam has been silent because she has been seriously attacked and injured. My full thoughts on matter are here: http://wp.me/p8N6Q-9F
But to some up. Prayer for her healing and restoration but more importantly when you stop to read a blog or forum remember to pray for the servant of God behind the words, forum, or what have you. The enemy is at work.
Anyway, I was following thw site listed at the end but found these remarks of interest, thought I’d share…
1. I would like to say that I fully agree with almost everything that’s been said against IHOP here. I was a part of them for almost three years, forced to be by my single parent who immersed themselves in false practices and prayers, they put on the guise of being holy and pure but they could not be further from it.
Eventually I felt that their teaching was entirely off the more I got into it but my hand was forced into trying to accept it. If I brought ‘anything that was not of God’ into my home, such as a video game or a halloween costume it was taken into the back yard and burned as they prayed over it and drove ‘prayer stakes’ into the ground.
I was abused. I was beaten and held down into chairs while these people claimed they were pulling demons from me. I was fifteen. I am considering filing a case against IHOP because they KNEW what my single parent was doing, I had serious wounds (they did not inflict but was an accident) but received no medical attention even when I told leaders in IHOP that I was not being taken care of and needed to see a doctor immediately. Several times I would plead with my worship leaders or prayer leaders to listen to me when I said I was being abused both verbally and physically and they disregarded every word I said. One night it got too far and my parent tried to choke me to death and a member of IHOP was visiting our home. She did not do anything. Instead I was told that if God were there he would ‘punishing’ me for being impure. Several times I had public confrontations with my parent but no one stepped in even though I was being verbally and physically threatened. Instead they supported them because I was the child and I wasn’t following their creed.
They are child abusers, false prophets and teachers. Everything is shallow, superficial and boosted up by self righteousness. I met personally with several leaders, knew the leader’s children and interns but was rejected when I told them my situation because I did not fully ‘embrace god’ and ‘everything happened in his time’.
Their programs steal thousands of dollars from innocent impressionable young men and women, buying them into their way of life and if you try to pull out of it often times a ‘prayer group’ will be sent to your home to attempt to ‘help’ you. They do ‘life interventions’ as well. Bob Jones was one such case but with good reason. I can’t condemn them confronting him because during my time there it came to light not only was he a pedophile but an alcoholic that was abusing boys that visited his home both sexually and physically. I have no respect for anyone who hurts a child.
These people are evil. They are a cultist group and I no longer believe in God after witnessing the kind of treatment they give to those who don’t ‘adhere to God’s call’. If that was God then I want no part of him or his ‘ministry’. Today I can barely manage because of the mental damage that IHOP inflicted on me, this coming personally from someone who was forced to be a member for three years, I would never suggest them to anyone. STAY AWAY FROM THEM. They’re not worth your money or your time!
Comment by Anonymous | September 3, 2009
1. Ailsa, ArisemyLove,
Thank you for your condolences but I feel that no amount of words that any Christian or anything like them has every told me can undo what’s been done. The only thing that can ever bring light to the injustice that IHOP is inflicting on children is for people to take action.
I am living proof of the action that was never taken.
I respect your beliefs and your faith but at this time I feel that Christianity is not, and may not ever be, right for me at this point in time. This is not to say every Christian is what IHOP presents but I have never met a loving, understanding or Christlike person in my life therefore I have no reason to trust what so many people claim to be the truth.
I am sickened by the thought that they are still operating. How many more children are suffering like I was suffering? What’s being done to liberate them? Nothing. These children are forced by their parents to conform to a way of life imposed on them, not chosen by them, to the point of their own perspective being warped. A child’s heart and mind is a very fragile thing. They don’t even realize they’re part of a cultist group.
As for the bible itself;
The Bible was written by man, therefore it is a work of man, even if ‘man’ heard God’s voice. You can assume through that that each person interpreted this differently and it was all written according to the time period it was written for. I do agree with some concepts that the Bible presents, mostly to do with love and acceptance, but I do not agree with how literally scripture is often taken. IHOP is a place that takes it too many steps too far.
The thing that I find most appalling about what most Christians do (and what keeps me away from the faith itself) is the judgement they seem to think they’re worthy of passing on people with addictions, people who are homosexual or people that are not Christian and do not want to be Christian.
Jesus did not condemn the addicted, the insane or the prostitute, he helped them, he tried to save them without forcing his way of life directly onto them. Jesus was not judgemental towards the hurt, abused or the abandoned. He welcomed them with open arms. I am not suggesting that this conflict should not be brought to light but should be handled differently. Trying to force someone into what you believe is never right and should not be condoned. I know there is a desperate need among most ‘Christians’ to save others but they need to realize that if someone truly feels drawn to ‘God’ or whatever higher power out there they’ll come to him themselves. Jesus was contagious because of how he portrayed what Christians were meant to be like, not because he forced anyone to do anything, he acted and because of his actions he grew a following that he did not seek to steal from, hurt or destroy. Humans inherently all share one thing. Greed. Whether it be for money, power or attention it’s still not right.
I encourage people to accept everyone regardless of their doctrine or creed. Religion is a dangerous thing, it kills, it destroys, it controls and obliterates. Faith, however, is entirely different. If one has faith, no matter what it may be in, they can accomplish what they set out to do.
In spite of all this, IHOP was the exact opposite, I can’t look at the doors of a church without grimacing or thinking of how misled their sheep are. Humans are flawed, it’s in our nature, even though we often try to cover it up by using religion, psychology or our own personal problems to excuse it. IHOP turns a blind eye to those who truly need their help and pushes them out into the cold. My heart is still bitter, torn and hurt from everything that was done to me, most of what happened has even gone unsaid here, but I want nothing more to do with IHOP or the Church. I do not feel ‘God’s call’ on my life and I never have. I don’t want lipservice, I don’t want to see preaching out on the street, I don’t want to see people trying to impose themselves onto others. I want to see action, proper action taken, without the bias of opinion. I want to see people love fearlessly and that love be what draws others in.
So in other words. Walk the walk if you’re going to talk the talk.
Comment by Anonymous | September 5, 2009
1. Anonamous,
That is a very accustitory story/testamony. Why have you not gone for legal advice against them if this is true? What years were you there?
Comment by IWTT | September 5, 2009
1. IWTT,
Legal action may be in the works now but I did wait because I was unsure how to go about it. I wish to remain anonymous therefore I will only tell you that I was there in 05, 06 and 07. I have no reason to lie. I want people to know the truth. I can prove everything that was done to me, I have names, contacts and close friends that witnessed it. I was enrolled in two programs while there.
Most of leadership knew and would still be able to recall exactly who I am. I’m not afraid to stand up for what I believe is right just like what you believe is right. Or would you rather justify child abuse? I am not afraid to say they are a self absorbed cultist group that abuses children, some physically, most verbally and a few sexually. You cannot tell me that is right.
1. Dear Annonymous:
I think you should sue IHOP to high heaven, pardon the pun, AFTER you have sought other remedies. On that same line, what would constitute a resolution for you? Public apology, financial help, jail time? If you have an ounce left of faith in you towards a good God, pray about that! And bless you.
P.S. The IHOPers and YWAMers and NARbots were involved with a lawsuit a few years ago that mentioned “brainwashing” by the false prophets of IHOP movement — Cindy Jacobs, JIm Goll, Che Ahn, Jill Austion, bennie Hinn’s wife, etc., with the pastor there who was molesting men.
Look up the Gateway and Harvest Rock church. I don’t think this case went to court but i know Harvest Rock was sued big time and “brainwashing” was part of the sexual abuse claims.
Just for the record, I had nothing to do with that church or its meltdown in 2004, but two years later the Lord gave me a word and a vision that said that “Just as the Gateway church was “attacked” by false prophets who inculcated sexual immorality in the pastor (this is what the spirit of false prophecy Jezebel always teaches) your own church will be attacked by false prophets…”
My investigation of what happened at that small church meltdown is what got me out of the Apostolic Prophetic Cult of IHOP/YWAM/NAR, so I INVITE scrutiny and common sense appraisal of their insanity by Legal authorities.
Just imagine if the Mormons had been really held up on child abuse and polygamy issues before the Law back when Smith was alive… how many souls would have been saved from Hell by this time?
In other words, annonymous, go after these false Christians. Go after them with their own Bible and with the full force of the law as you can. You are not held to any Biblical standard against suing another brother or sister in court, because these people are NOT Christians.
Comment by AriseMyLove | September 9, 2009
http://endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com/2008/08/27/mike-bickle-ihop-cult-like-tendancies/#comment-50488
September 11, 2009 at 4:31 pm
Reposted after deletion of the links… I found this post first and then went back to see if I could read more, then I happen to look at the following discussion on this comment. Thought it was very interesting….
Miriam Franklin in need of prayer
« on: Today at 06:10:27 AM »
——————————————————————————–
Recent update on her blog by someone who know her, perhaps her husband. At any rate Miriam has been silent because she has been seriously attacked and injured. My full thoughts on matter are here:
But to some up. Prayer for her healing and restoration but more importantly when you stop to read a blog or forum remember to pray for the servant of God behind the words, forum, or what have you. The enemy is at work.
1. I would like to say that I fully agree with almost everything that’s been said against IHOP here. I was a part of them for almost three years, forced to be by my single parent who immersed themselves in false practices and prayers, they put on the guise of being holy and pure but they could not be further from it.
Eventually I felt that their teaching was entirely off the more I got into it but my hand was forced into trying to accept it. If I brought ‘anything that was not of God’ into my home, such as a video game or a halloween costume it was taken into the back yard and burned as they prayed over it and drove ‘prayer stakes’ into the ground.
I was abused. I was beaten and held down into chairs while these people claimed they were pulling demons from me. I was fifteen. I am considering filing a case against IHOP because they KNEW what my single parent was doing, I had serious wounds (they did not inflict but was an accident) but received no medical attention even when I told leaders in IHOP that I was not being taken care of and needed to see a doctor immediately. Several times I would plead with my worship leaders or prayer leaders to listen to me when I said I was being abused both verbally and physically and they disregarded every word I said. One night it got too far and my parent tried to choke me to death and a member of IHOP was visiting our home. She did not do anything. Instead I was told that if God were there he would ‘punishing’ me for being impure. Several times I had public confrontations with my parent but no one stepped in even though I was being verbally and physically threatened. Instead they supported them because I was the child and I wasn’t following their creed.
They are child abusers, false prophets and teachers. Everything is shallow, superficial and boosted up by self righteousness. I met personally with several leaders, knew the leader’s children and interns but was rejected when I told them my situation because I did not fully ‘embrace god’ and ‘everything happened in his time’.
Their programs steal thousands of dollars from innocent impressionable young men and women, buying them into their way of life and if you try to pull out of it often times a ‘prayer group’ will be sent to your home to attempt to ‘help’ you. They do ‘life interventions’ as well. Bob Jones was one such case but with good reason. I can’t condemn them confronting him because during my time there it came to light not only was he a pedophile but an alcoholic that was abusing boys that visited his home both sexually and physically. I have no respect for anyone who hurts a child.
These people are evil. They are a cultist group and I no longer believe in God after witnessing the kind of treatment they give to those who don’t ‘adhere to God’s call’. If that was God then I want no part of him or his ‘ministry’. Today I can barely manage because of the mental damage that IHOP inflicted on me, this coming personally from someone who was forced to be a member for three years, I would never suggest them to anyone. STAY AWAY FROM THEM. They’re not worth your money or your time!
Comment by Anonymous | September 3, 2009
1. Ailsa, ArisemyLove,
Thank you for your condolences but I feel that no amount of words that any Christian or anything like them has every told me can undo what’s been done. The only thing that can ever bring light to the injustice that IHOP is inflicting on children is for people to take action.
I am living proof of the action that was never taken.
I respect your beliefs and your faith but at this time I feel that Christianity is not, and may not ever be, right for me at this point in time. This is not to say every Christian is what IHOP presents but I have never met a loving, understanding or Christlike person in my life therefore I have no reason to trust what so many people claim to be the truth.
I am sickened by the thought that they are still operating. How many more children are suffering like I was suffering? What’s being done to liberate them? Nothing. These children are forced by their parents to conform to a way of life imposed on them, not chosen by them, to the point of their own perspective being warped. A child’s heart and mind is a very fragile thing. They don’t even realize they’re part of a cultist group.
As for the bible itself;
The Bible was written by man, therefore it is a work of man, even if ‘man’ heard God’s voice. You can assume through that that each person interpreted this differently and it was all written according to the time period it was written for. I do agree with some concepts that the Bible presents, mostly to do with love and acceptance, but I do not agree with how literally scripture is often taken. IHOP is a place that takes it too many steps too far.
The thing that I find most appalling about what most Christians do (and what keeps me away from the faith itself) is the judgement they seem to think they’re worthy of passing on people with addictions, people who are homosexual or people that are not Christian and do not want to be Christian.
Jesus did not condemn the addicted, the insane or the prostitute, he helped them, he tried to save them without forcing his way of life directly onto them. Jesus was not judgemental towards the hurt, abused or the abandoned. He welcomed them with open arms. I am not suggesting that this conflict should not be brought to light but should be handled differently. Trying to force someone into what you believe is never right and should not be condoned. I know there is a desperate need among most ‘Christians’ to save others but they need to realize that if someone truly feels drawn to ‘God’ or whatever higher power out there they’ll come to him themselves. Jesus was contagious because of how he portrayed what Christians were meant to be like, not because he forced anyone to do anything, he acted and because of his actions he grew a following that he did not seek to steal from, hurt or destroy. Humans inherently all share one thing. Greed. Whether it be for money, power or attention it’s still not right.
I encourage people to accept everyone regardless of their doctrine or creed. Religion is a dangerous thing, it kills, it destroys, it controls and obliterates. Faith, however, is entirely different. If one has faith, no matter what it may be in, they can accomplish what they set out to do.
In spite of all this, IHOP was the exact opposite, I can’t look at the doors of a church without grimacing or thinking of how misled their sheep are. Humans are flawed, it’s in our nature, even though we often try to cover it up by using religion, psychology or our own personal problems to excuse it. IHOP turns a blind eye to those who truly need their help and pushes them out into the cold. My heart is still bitter, torn and hurt from everything that was done to me, most of what happened has even gone unsaid here, but I want nothing more to do with IHOP or the Church. I do not feel ‘God’s call’ on my life and I never have. I don’t want lipservice, I don’t want to see preaching out on the street, I don’t want to see people trying to impose themselves onto others. I want to see action, proper action taken, without the bias of opinion. I want to see people love fearlessly and that love be what draws others in.
So in other words. Walk the walk if you’re going to talk the talk.
Comment by Anonymous | September 5, 2009
1. Anonamous,
That is a very accustitory story/testamony. Why have you not gone for legal advice against them if this is true? What years were you there?
Comment by IWTT | September 5, 2009
1. IWTT,
Legal action may be in the works now but I did wait because I was unsure how to go about it. I wish to remain anonymous therefore I will only tell you that I was there in 05, 06 and 07. I have no reason to lie. I want people to know the truth. I can prove everything that was done to me, I have names, contacts and close friends that witnessed it. I was enrolled in two programs while there.
Most of leadership knew and would still be able to recall exactly who I am. I’m not afraid to stand up for what I believe is right just like what you believe is right. Or would you rather justify child abuse? I am not afraid to say they are a self absorbed cultist group that abuses children, some physically, most verbally and a few sexually. You cannot tell me that is right.
1. Dear Annonymous:
I think you should sue IHOP to high heaven, pardon the pun, AFTER you have sought other remedies. On that same line, what would constitute a resolution for you? Public apology, financial help, jail time? If you have an ounce left of faith in you towards a good God, pray about that! And bless you.
P.S. The IHOPers and YWAMers and NARbots were involved with a lawsuit a few years ago that mentioned “brainwashing” by the false prophets of IHOP movement — Cindy Jacobs, JIm Goll, Che Ahn, Jill Austion, bennie Hinn’s wife, etc., with the pastor there who was molesting men.
Look up the Gateway and Harvest Rock church. I don’t think this case went to court but i know Harvest Rock was sued big time and “brainwashing” was part of the sexual abuse claims.
Just for the record, I had nothing to do with that church or its meltdown in 2004, but two years later the Lord gave me a word and a vision that said that “Just as the Gateway church was “attacked” by false prophets who inculcated sexual immorality in the pastor (this is what the spirit of false prophecy Jezebel always teaches) your own church will be attacked by false prophets…”
My investigation of what happened at that small church meltdown is what got me out of the Apostolic Prophetic Cult of IHOP/YWAM/NAR, so I INVITE scrutiny and common sense appraisal of their insanity by Legal authorities.
Just imagine if the Mormons had been really held up on child abuse and polygamy issues before the Law back when Smith was alive… how many souls would have been saved from Hell by this time?
In other words, annonymous, go after these false Christians. Go after them with their own Bible and with the full force of the law as you can. You are not held to any Biblical standard against suing another brother or sister in court, because these people are NOT Christians.
Comment by AriseMyLove | September 9, 2009
September 11, 2009 at 7:55 pm
Tim,
I’m confused. Where did you see that Miriam was attacked/injured?
The comments from Anonymous are from someone who was a teenaged daughter of a single mom. This has nothing to do with Miriam the way I see it. As far as I know Miriam has never been to IHOP.
Could you clarify?
September 11, 2009 at 8:14 pm
OK, here’s a blog which speaks of the comment made on Miriam’s own site. The original comment is by “Pardner” under the “Testimony of a Joyce Meyer Follower” thread:
http://peacebringer7.wordpress.com/2009/09/11/miriam-franklin-needing-prayer/
I’m praying.
September 11, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Craig,
Good you found the site… My main part of the posts was more in line with the acusations made by the girl. I just found it very interesting and if she indeed is seeking legal counsel and is taking them to court, alot may come out to the truth about IHOP. On the other hand none of it may be true and if so that will be shown as well.
This was just for interest sake.
September 11, 2009 at 8:41 pm
Tim,
OK, now I see…
September 23, 2009 at 1:22 pm
OK, so was my comment on Bickle’s “Dream” thread deleted?