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	<title>Comments for The Grey Coats</title>
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	<description>We don't give up, we get down.</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 08:24:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on Doctrine! who cares? part II by Lee</title>
		<link>http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/doctrine-who-cares-part-ii/#comment-3916</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 05:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3916</guid>
		<description>Rick Joyners words from #10 above:

&lt;i&gt;As I was later shown, this was because it was by the dishonoring of fathers and fatherhood that a gate of hell was opened that released much of the evil which has taken a grip on the nation. I consider Paul Cain a spiritual father...&lt;/i&gt; 

OK now, just how can a homosexual become a father?

...couldn't resist 8)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rick Joyners words from #10 above:</p>
<p><i>As I was later shown, this was because it was by the dishonoring of fathers and fatherhood that a gate of hell was opened that released much of the evil which has taken a grip on the nation. I consider Paul Cain a spiritual father&#8230;</i> </p>
<p>OK now, just how can a homosexual become a father?</p>
<p>&#8230;couldn&#8217;t resist <img src='http://s.wordpress.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif' alt='8)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>Comment on Doctrine! who cares? part II by Bill</title>
		<link>http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/doctrine-who-cares-part-ii/#comment-3915</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 05:05:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3915</guid>
		<description>CS,

&lt;I&gt;This, in turn, suggests that they may have removed the video as part of a damage control program. In that case, though we may deprecate the error of inviting Cain, I think we should applaud the removal of the video.&lt;/I&gt;

As one who likes to hear and decide for myself, I'm not sure that I can applaud this. This is no surprise; already Cain is saying he was &lt;B&gt;totally misunderstood&lt;/b&gt;.

It reminds me of something I wrote back in 2004:

&lt;I&gt;The Elijah List, regarding a September 2002 Albany Oregon Vineyard meeting, stated "Paul Cain was in such rare form --as a father and grandfather in the spirit." Well, within the last few weeks the Elijah List removed their "spiritual father" from the website's archive search engine, with no explanation or comment. Some family secrets are worth hiding. &lt;/I&gt;

It also reminds me of the  blueprint prophecy. What are they trying to hide? Where is the "spirit of truth?"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CS,</p>
<p><i>This, in turn, suggests that they may have removed the video as part of a damage control program. In that case, though we may deprecate the error of inviting Cain, I think we should applaud the removal of the video.</i></p>
<p>As one who likes to hear and decide for myself, I&#8217;m not sure that I can applaud this. This is no surprise; already Cain is saying he was <b>totally misunderstood</b>.</p>
<p>It reminds me of something I wrote back in 2004:</p>
<p><i>The Elijah List, regarding a September 2002 Albany Oregon Vineyard meeting, stated &#8220;Paul Cain was in such rare form &#8211;as a father and grandfather in the spirit.&#8221; Well, within the last few weeks the Elijah List removed their &#8220;spiritual father&#8221; from the website&#8217;s archive search engine, with no explanation or comment. Some family secrets are worth hiding. </i></p>
<p>It also reminds me of the  blueprint prophecy. What are they trying to hide? Where is the &#8220;spirit of truth?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Doctrine! who cares? part II by Bill</title>
		<link>http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/doctrine-who-cares-part-ii/#comment-3914</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 02:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3914</guid>
		<description>For the curious, anf for some reason I keep getting a &lt;strike&gt;vision&lt;/strike&gt; mental image of a "train wreck," here is Joyner's perspective on the most recent Cain sighting:

What about Paul Cain?
When Paul Cain appeared on the platform of the revival in Lakeland it caused quite a reaction, jamming my personal emails to the point where I thought for a while it might be impossible to answer them all. Some were disconcerted about Paul’s appearance, others by some of the things he said, and others were simply asking if Paul had been restored yet. 

The reason why Paul was invited to the Lakeland revival was that he had prophesied that “the last-day ministry” would begin in Florida. I have personally heard Paul say this many times over the years and questioned him about it in depth. I believe it is a true prophecy, and when I heard that Paul was saying that what was happening in Lakeland was the fulfillment of this prophecy, I was very interested to hear what he would say about it.

I also felt that Todd Bentley was right to honor Paul by bringing him to that meeting and letting him share the vision he has carried for so long. As I have shared in the previous Special Bulletins, I think it may have begun with a devotion to honor the fathers as I was shown in a dream. As I was later shown, this was because it was by the dishonoring of fathers and fatherhood that a gate of hell was opened that released much of the evil which has taken a grip on the nation. I consider Paul Cain a spiritual father to us personally and to a number of the important works that have been raised up in these times for “the last-day ministry.” 

The commandment to honor our fathers and mothers does not say they have to be “perfect” ones or there would be none to honor. We have all fallen short of His righteousness. Some of the greatest heroes of the faith in the Bible made some of the greatest mistakes. Paul Cain has had some serious failures in his life, but even when Mike Bickle, Jack Deere, and I were compelled to release some of these matters publicly for the protection of the church, I never ceased to consider Paul Cain a hero of the faith, and one who possessed one of the greatest prophetic gifts. Even so, we all knew that if Paul did not submit himself to a real restoration process, he would be a serious danger to himself and others. We could not be true shepherds or watchmen if we allowed that to happen without sounding the warning that we put out.

Later, Paul submitted himself to a restoration process and they declared him restored to ministry. When those who had led this process explained how they had accomplished this so fast, it set off more alarms in me. Some of the communication I had with them and with Paul only solidified my doubts. Even so, I had a great hope that I was wrong, or even if I was right about the validity of their restoration process, that the Lord would intervene some other way so that Paul could be delivered from the powerful strongholds that had taken such a grip on his life.

I kept that hope until Paul spoke in Lakeland about “the allegations” about him and his assertions of having lived a celibate life. That was pretty overwhelming evidence that he has still not repented of these serious transgressions. What Paul called “allegations” are abundant and overwhelming evidence, which Paul has admitted to. However, admitting something is not the same as repenting of it. As long as there is blame-shifting, an attempt to cover them up, or dilute the seriousness of them, the restoration process has at best fallen far short of its purpose.

As it has been reported that Todd would not let Paul come back on the platform after he asserted that he had lived a celibate life is a credit to the integrity that Todd is trying to maintain in his ministry. If Paul had even just said that he had made serious mistakes in his life and owned them just a little, it would have given me hope, but it seemed quite clear to me that not much has changed with Paul, and in fact, they are getting worse. Even so, I am resolved to not give up on Paul for as long as he is with us. I long for the day, as I know Jack and Mike do also, when we can assert that Paul is free of the serious strongholds in his life and should be restored to ministry. Presently, my concern for him grew considerably after his night in Lakeland.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For the curious, anf for some reason I keep getting a <strike>vision</strike> mental image of a &#8220;train wreck,&#8221; here is Joyner&#8217;s perspective on the most recent Cain sighting:</p>
<p>What about Paul Cain?<br />
When Paul Cain appeared on the platform of the revival in Lakeland it caused quite a reaction, jamming my personal emails to the point where I thought for a while it might be impossible to answer them all. Some were disconcerted about Paul’s appearance, others by some of the things he said, and others were simply asking if Paul had been restored yet. </p>
<p>The reason why Paul was invited to the Lakeland revival was that he had prophesied that “the last-day ministry” would begin in Florida. I have personally heard Paul say this many times over the years and questioned him about it in depth. I believe it is a true prophecy, and when I heard that Paul was saying that what was happening in Lakeland was the fulfillment of this prophecy, I was very interested to hear what he would say about it.</p>
<p>I also felt that Todd Bentley was right to honor Paul by bringing him to that meeting and letting him share the vision he has carried for so long. As I have shared in the previous Special Bulletins, I think it may have begun with a devotion to honor the fathers as I was shown in a dream. As I was later shown, this was because it was by the dishonoring of fathers and fatherhood that a gate of hell was opened that released much of the evil which has taken a grip on the nation. I consider Paul Cain a spiritual father to us personally and to a number of the important works that have been raised up in these times for “the last-day ministry.” </p>
<p>The commandment to honor our fathers and mothers does not say they have to be “perfect” ones or there would be none to honor. We have all fallen short of His righteousness. Some of the greatest heroes of the faith in the Bible made some of the greatest mistakes. Paul Cain has had some serious failures in his life, but even when Mike Bickle, Jack Deere, and I were compelled to release some of these matters publicly for the protection of the church, I never ceased to consider Paul Cain a hero of the faith, and one who possessed one of the greatest prophetic gifts. Even so, we all knew that if Paul did not submit himself to a real restoration process, he would be a serious danger to himself and others. We could not be true shepherds or watchmen if we allowed that to happen without sounding the warning that we put out.</p>
<p>Later, Paul submitted himself to a restoration process and they declared him restored to ministry. When those who had led this process explained how they had accomplished this so fast, it set off more alarms in me. Some of the communication I had with them and with Paul only solidified my doubts. Even so, I had a great hope that I was wrong, or even if I was right about the validity of their restoration process, that the Lord would intervene some other way so that Paul could be delivered from the powerful strongholds that had taken such a grip on his life.</p>
<p>I kept that hope until Paul spoke in Lakeland about “the allegations” about him and his assertions of having lived a celibate life. That was pretty overwhelming evidence that he has still not repented of these serious transgressions. What Paul called “allegations” are abundant and overwhelming evidence, which Paul has admitted to. However, admitting something is not the same as repenting of it. As long as there is blame-shifting, an attempt to cover them up, or dilute the seriousness of them, the restoration process has at best fallen far short of its purpose.</p>
<p>As it has been reported that Todd would not let Paul come back on the platform after he asserted that he had lived a celibate life is a credit to the integrity that Todd is trying to maintain in his ministry. If Paul had even just said that he had made serious mistakes in his life and owned them just a little, it would have given me hope, but it seemed quite clear to me that not much has changed with Paul, and in fact, they are getting worse. Even so, I am resolved to not give up on Paul for as long as he is with us. I long for the day, as I know Jack and Mike do also, when we can assert that Paul is free of the serious strongholds in his life and should be restored to ministry. Presently, my concern for him grew considerably after his night in Lakeland.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Doctrine! who cares? part II by Bill</title>
		<link>http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/doctrine-who-cares-part-ii/#comment-3913</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 02:36:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/?p=167#comment-3913</guid>
		<description>Yeah, I think, regarding Cain, the statement "we had an obvious lack of discernment" was made concerning this invitation. 

No scratch that. That was a statement concerning Cain made by Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and Jack Deere back on October 21, 2004.

Hey they also said: " We have received a considerable education through this situation, the principles of which we will share in due time with the hope that others will not have to make our same mistakes. "

How's that working for you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I think, regarding Cain, the statement &#8220;we had an obvious lack of discernment&#8221; was made concerning this invitation. </p>
<p>No scratch that. That was a statement concerning Cain made by Rick Joyner, Mike Bickle and Jack Deere back on October 21, 2004.</p>
<p>Hey they also said: &#8221; We have received a considerable education through this situation, the principles of which we will share in due time with the hope that others will not have to make our same mistakes. &#8221;</p>
<p>How&#8217;s that working for you?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Bam Bam Bentley by Bill Fawcett</title>
		<link>http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2008/05/13/bam-bam-bentley/#comment-3912</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Fawcett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 02:21:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/?p=165#comment-3912</guid>
		<description>CS,

Indeed, Wiggesworth is reported to have thrown a corpse at a wall once. I call it "al dente" ministry.

You know, the knee thing actually did not offend me. I have trouble with him patting the knee three times before he did the knee punch. Why? It suggests an attitude towards the Holy Ghost as it He is an "It".  Some sort of force that can be thrown around*.  This is something I've seen before, and I don't care for it. Lest we forget, the Holy Ghost is HOLY, and He is part of the triune Godhead.

-Bill

* many times in a playful or giddy manner, and Bentley does it so well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CS,</p>
<p>Indeed, Wiggesworth is reported to have thrown a corpse at a wall once. I call it &#8220;al dente&#8221; ministry.</p>
<p>You know, the knee thing actually did not offend me. I have trouble with him patting the knee three times before he did the knee punch. Why? It suggests an attitude towards the Holy Ghost as it He is an &#8220;It&#8221;.  Some sort of force that can be thrown around*.  This is something I&#8217;ve seen before, and I don&#8217;t care for it. Lest we forget, the Holy Ghost is HOLY, and He is part of the triune Godhead.</p>
<p>-Bill</p>
<p>* many times in a playful or giddy manner, and Bentley does it so well.</p>
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