How We Roll….A Little History

The greycoats began as a spontaneous experiment.  It grew quickly, largely due to our contact with Ernie Gruen and then the Lakeland thing….well, that was really too easy.  But, on that wave we crested, got lofty thoughts, bought our own dotcom and decided to make a go of it.  Well……we realized that we are technidiots.  Some of you are fully aware of this after being subjected to the many bugs, delays, snafoos, and general fubar which characterized our website.  Granted, some of this was committed at the hands of hackers (we don’t know who, only how) intent on unleashing moths in the greycoats closet.  Well, that didn’t work.  But, what did almost shut the doors and mop the floors at the greycoats cafe was a little topic called…..abortion.  Yeah.  We had some serious problems on an abortion thread with A. lack of monitoring B.  the flatness of the blogging medium C.  general miscommunication D.  personal miscommunication and for E.  Could it be???????  SATAN!!!!!

Well, there we were.  In over our heads, not willing to hiring a webmaster (or spend the time it takes learning how to do that), not making any money, working full-time jobs, full-time seminary, full-time ministry, full-time families, but not fully agreeing on what to do with the greycoats.  Ready to call it quits we were (notice the Yodaesque phrasing….adds a certain, ‘I don’t know what’, don’t you think?).  But, we technidiots didn’t even know how to shut down our site.  So we sort of kept on rolling.

Then….

We remembered the glorious ease of wordpress.com.  The many applications, the free tech support, the many user forums, the glitch free performance, and so……..we also remembered why we started the greycoats.  But, we also realized that our perspectives have changed.  This has been due to several factors.  A major one being time.  Time away from immersion in the prophetic movement and the firsthand excesses of extreme charismaticism.  However, other aspects effecting our thought train have certainly been our interface with the topics and readership of this blog.

With that said, we haven’t softened up our positions regarding the prophetic movement’s neo-Montanist whack-jobs who call themselves Christian leaders.  We haven’t slacked up on our desire to see them exposed for the heretical pulpit pimps (think Creflo Dollar) and spiritual crack dealers (think John Crowder) that they really are.  However, we are more inclined at this point to spend equal, if not more, time explaining the truth of what we believe rather than the untruth of what others believe. Frankly, and in the words of Drew Blom the ex-Sign of Jonah guru: we are getting tired “of trolling the proverbial gutter that is the prophetic movement.”  If that is what it takes to be a successful blog, then I guess we just won’t be the big dogs on the block.  Constantly digging up dirt on these dufuses (while sometimes extremely easy) tends to eat at the soul.   We really aren’t heresy-hunters and have always resisted that label.  Honest questions are one thing, but continually answering the same charges, arguments, and tired rhetoric of the extreme-charismatics has become quite honestly….boring.

We do thank you if you’ve hung in there with our little corner of blogdom.  Please feel free to add your experiences with the greycoats to this thread, your comments or your critiques, or even a little loaded language if you feel so inclined.  Thanks.

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20 Comments

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20 responses to “How We Roll….A Little History

  1. pjmiller

    Hi guys!

    Yep, wordpress is where its at for those of us who are non-techno geniuses. (Thank God for wordpress!)

    I totally understand your desire to not keep your blog (or selves) focused on only the false teachers, doctrines, etc out there today. It can affect ones own spiritual well being, after awhile.

    There has to be a balance to stay healthy…

    I’ve been one who has hung in..checking in here once in awhile. (I receive your posts through my feeds). I’m looking forward to see where God is going to led you guys!

    God bless

    pj

  2. Raspberry

    I’m very glad to see you back!

    I think you are absolutely right, spending all your time explaining why something is wrong is not good for the soul in the end, even though I still believe it needs to be done sometimes, but approaching it from the other side, as you say, focussing on the truth of what we DO believe..well I guess it can accomplish the same thing, making the bad stuff easier to spot.

    I’m still very greatful for your stand for the truth both in the past and now, it has helped and encouraged me a lot.

    It can be very lonely when you know that you can’t endorse/join in with the things that others feel able to.

    Every Godly blessing for the future, Raspberry.

  3. Agreed.

    Plunging into the depths of any false religion (for too long) whether Atheism or Charismatic is far too damaging to one’s own well-being in Christ.

    Many people are obsessed with building their ministries online so that they become some kind of person people look up to with respect and recognition. Instead of wanting to be Christ-like, they become Pyromaniac-like, Challies-like, VenomfangX-like, or Lane Chaplin wannabes.

    Wrong, wrong, wrong.

    From the articles I’ve read by you guys I think you have so much more to offer to God than the boring, repetitious act of taking charismatic leaders (fools) to task on their doctrines and words. I have nothing against doing that, (I’ve worked hard to stand against the tokers on youtube) but there is so much more that you guys can write about and talk about than that.

    And I know exactly how you feel, it just gets old, dealing with the same arguments from the same rotten hearts who won’t reconcile themselves to the Word of God, but would much rather lower the Word of God to fit their wishy-washy belief system.

    Anyway, try this, take a break from this stuff and do a bible study on the blog, study what worship in the church is, write a poem on God, there are so many things that you can do that won’t bore you to tears but will give you a renewed passion for Christ.

    in all grace and peace,
    Logan

  4. Ah Logan,

    Good to see ya here buddy.

  5. Diane S.

    I am the former “Finally Seeing the Light”. I am glad for the change in the venue. As a matter of fact, I stopped viewing the Grey Coats because focusing on heresy was sucking me into a downward vortex. It had been very helpful to me when I was in the process of leaving the Vineyard church, but I needed to move on rather than wallow.

  6. TimH

    I have to agree with you Diane S. Though I still keep my eye open to what’s in the news in these areas I found that I eventually had to delete the sites that were purely heresy driven from my favorites list and go else where. I actually found a site that I enjoy alot and it has almost become an internet church. In fact this is run by someone who was active in Lakeland and then had their eyes open to the truth. It’s been really refreshing.

    http://faith-defenders.com/home/

  7. Interesting stuff Tim. The whole topic of ‘internet church’ is certainly post worthy. I had a substantial exchange with an ‘internet church’ pastor on a friends blog recently. It would make for some vibrant discussion I believe.

  8. TimH

    Correction on my previous post.

    Apparently John, the moderator of the site was the leader of a small group and they began to question the Lakeland Revival by testing against scripture and the whole group decided it wasn’t a good thing. They as a group did not support the revival and were verbal about it. The church they were a part of did. That of course caused some issues with some in the small group and some made decisions to leave the church.

    I think this would be agreat discussion, “Internet Church”. I like the idea, but I also have some strong reservations about it.

  9. TimH

    Didn’t have any better place to post this…

    Some satire from Defending Contending.

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes . . . Romans 1:16

    How you read Romans 1:16 tells a lot about you. Which of the following best resembles how you interpret the text?

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel (the death burial and resurrection of our Lord and Savior), for it (the preaching of that gospel and absolutely nothing else) is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes (not a superficial shallow mental ascent, but a complete dependence and trust upon Christ) . . .

    – Christian

    For I am not ashamed of the gifts of the spirit, for they are proof of the power of God and proof of your salvation to everyone who believes . . .

    -Charismaniac

    For I am not ashamed of pleading for money, for sowing your faith seed offering is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes . . .

    -Word of Faith Charismaniac

    For I am not ashamed of Mary, the Pope, and the Mother Church, for they are the power of God and the only way to salvation to everyone who believes and receives the sacraments, attends meritorious masses, is baptized, keeps the law, does good works, purchases indulgences, endures purgatory, etc. . . .

    – Roman Catholic

    For I am not ashamed of the gospel of the New Earth that we peddle door to door, for the Watchtower is the only ones who speak for God and is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes and exhaustively works their tails off for the Watchtower almost every waking hour of the day for their entire life to obtain Jehovah’s favor, which is not guaranteed . . .

    – Jehovah’ Witness

    For I am not ashamed of the restored gospel, even though I am ashamed and embarrassed about our church history and the things our church prophets have said (that was just their opinion and they were not speaking for God when they said all those awful things) for the Melchizadek Priesthood which only we have is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes and follows the following conditions as outlined in Gospel Principles pages 303-304 (1997 edition): 1.) We must be baptized and confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ. 2.) We must receive the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 3.) We must receive the temple endowment. 4.) We must be married for time and eternity.In addition to receiving the required ordinances, the Lord commands all of us to– 1. Love and worship God. 2. Love our neighbor. 3. Repent of our wrongdoings. 4. Live the law of chastity. 5. Pay honest tithes and offerings. 6. Be honest in our dealings with others and with the Lord. 7. Speak the truth always. 8. Obey the Word of Wisdom. 9. Search out our kindred dead and perform the saving ordinances of the gospel for them. 10. Keep the Sabbath day holy. 11. Attend our Church meetings as regularly as possible so we can renew our baptismal covenants by partaking of the sacrament. 12. Love our family members and strengthen them in the ways of the Lord. 13. Have family and individual prayers every day. 14. Honor our parents. 15. Teach the gospel to others by word and example. 16. Study the scriptures. 17. Listen to and obey the inspired words of the prophets of the Lord. Finally, each of us needs to receive the Holy Ghost and learn to follow his direction in our individual lives.

    – Mormon

    For I am not ashamed of the value found in all religions regardless of whether or not they conflict with one another on core issues , for whatever truth is for you, it is the power of God, gods, goddess, no god, or whatever you believe for a better world to everyone who believes or chooses not to believe . . .

    – Universalist Unitarian

    For I am not ashamed of shameless church marketing, for the end justifies the means and pragmatism is the power of God for filling seats on Sundays to watch our awesome worship rock band followed by our hip and and oh, so cool pastor and we’re also giving away free gas cards to everyone who attends our local campus . . .

    – Seeker-Friendly

    I am not ashamed of the Purpose-Driven Life, or Rick Warren’s PEACE plan. For it is the power to drag people away from the need for repentance while doing “good things” and heaping up wrath for themselves, all the while thinking they are earning brownie points and gold stars from God. Salvation? What’s that? That has to do with doctrine, and doctrine only divides. We shouldn’t worry about whether or not people follow the true Christ. Just so long as they are happy and content on their way to Hell, that’s what the Purpose-Driven Life is all about.

    – Purpose Driven

    For I am not ashamed of supporting any socialist cause or liberal issue, for a woman’s right to choose and a homosexual’s right to marry is the power of self-empowerment for salvation from the oppressive chains that the white, Anglo-Saxon, Capitalist, fascists have placed on the backs of everyone in this nation . . .

    – Liberal

    Romans? Is that in the Bible?

    – Emergent / Emerging

  10. TimH,

    Very funny, for the most part. I did feel that the Purpose Driven critique was overblown. While I don’t follow Warren’s methodologies I have not doubt that he is an evangelical Christian (in the broadest sense) who does share the gospel message.

  11. TimH

    That could be a debate to have.

    I am sure he may state that, and may have started out that way, plus he has a very good supporter by teh name of Richard Abanes that would also prove to you that he is, but he has signed off on the open letter that was written in response to the Muslim’s request to dialogue and come to a place of agreement that they and Christians do worship the same God and therefore we have common ground, to work towards peace.

    It has also been noted by others that the theological road that is the foundation of the method of Purpose Driven is Pelagiasm or Semi-Pelagiasm.

  12. While this topic is hardly in line with ‘Virtual Church’ I’ve read the Christian response, but not the initial Muslim letter. I should go back and read that.

    I think that the letter Warren (as well as John Stott, Bill Hybels, and other committed evangelicals) signed used the term God in a less specific fashion than I would like. However, I cannot derive blanket pluralism or Pelagianism from this document. But, anyone who is interested may read it for themselves here:

    http://www.yale.edu/divinity/news/071118_news_nytimes.pdf

  13. TimH

    I cannot derive blanket pluralism or Pelagianism from this document.

    No, this was not derived from this document.

    That was a second statement on the Purpose Driven Model Method that I made and what theological foundation it REALLY comes out of it. I have a friend who was a pastor at a very seeker-friendly/Purpose Driven model/Bill Hybels style church. This church followed the methods almost to the “T”. After being on staff for several years and really looking into this model, the question arises, “Does theology drive the method?”

    After much discussion and study and research into this question, he, as well as others, believe that theology does indeed drive method. The theology behind Purpose Driven, in their estimation, as well as others who have stood up to RW ways, is more of semi-pelagia. If I remember right wasn’t that considered a heretical theology in its day (Pelagiasm)?

    I also believe the conclusion they have come to and even more than that I believe that PDL is a pre-evelution to Emergent/Emerging Church.

  14. Fair enough Tim. Several leaders (notably led by Al Mohler) have bones to pick with Warren and co. I haven’t done a detailed examination of Rick Warren’s theological moorings lately. I did read the Purpose Driven Life. While I found it formulaic and tend to shy away from stuff like that I would be stretched to say that it was heretical….and I’m not aware that Mohler has gone that far either. Though, ‘Seeker-Sensitive’ mega-churches are not my forte I can’t say for certain that they’ve been a complete wash. One thing I would disagree with you on is ‘that PDL is a pre-evolution to Emergent/Emerging Church’. I’m active in dialoguing with a few influential bloggers who have grown up or into the EC. First of all there are many strains of the socalled Emergent[ing] Church, many of these are busily REACTING against Willow Creek/Saddleback consumer Christianity.

  15. TimH

    I’ll stand on the position that I don’t know much about that group Emergent/Emerging. I only know that I had a gut reaction when the pastor of the church I went to, the same as my friend, began to preach the books from within these churches in place of the scriptures and I felt like it was just another step (evolution) beyond the PDL…

    Ok I just got this from my friend…

    TRECHEROUS TRADITIONS
    03.27.09
    J.A. Matteson

    See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men…Colossians 2:8

    All a man needs is Jesus Christ “in whom are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge” (Colossians 2: 3). Regeneration begets conversion and the saint is sealed with or in (_a greek word that did not show on the post_) the Holy Spirit—not merely by, implying an incomplete work of grace—but with, indicating a thorough internal transformation and empowerment by the Holy Spirit. At conversion the saint stands as a new creation in Christ Jesus, complete as His ambassador, lacking nothing, looking to the Head alone who is able to keep him from stumbling and to present him blameless on that Day. The Apostle confronted head-on the evil traditions and teaching of men that were not founded by Christ—the Chief cornerstone of the Church, nor the teaching of the Apostles—its foundation, viz., that faith was insufficient for justification and that men were obligated to follow human philosophy and tradition, binding their consciences to the delusional whims of men rather than to Christ. In the present day there is an evil at work through human philosophy and traditions of men that is subverting the word of Christ and His Apostles. The Reformers confronted Papal decrees and councils, the vile sale of indulgences for absolution, and the viewing of relics to circumvent time in purgatory.

    Protesting these and many other unbiblical teachings the evil was unmasked and those advancing the cause of doctrinal reform were vilified, many brutally killed by a man-centered religion desperate to remain in control over the souls of men. As the masses were led astray in past generations by men who engaged in fanciful esigesis of Scripture leading to extra-biblical doctrines that enslaved the consciences of men, so too the present generation is being held hostage to doctrines of men that have been elevated as authoritative for faith and practice, the end result has been the subversion of the inspiration, inerrancy, authority, and sufficiency of Scripture to which the Apostle decries to the Corinthians, “But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ” (2 Corinthians 11:3).

    From the humanists who denounce the inspiration of Scripture; to the proponents of higher criticism who reject its inerrancy; to the existentialist who holds to experience as the end authority of truth; to the proponents of the “church growth movement” who profess the sufficiency of Scripture, but by their deeds deny the same; to the charlatans of the word-of-faith movement who devilishly prey upon the simple for sordid gain, living in luxury and promising health and wealth to all who surrender to them their paychecks; to the contemporary Gnostics who being deceived by angels masquerading as messengers of light seek after experience and esoteric knowledge, opening their minds to the principalities and powers of darkness; to the post-modern emergent church and its aversion to propositional truth, denying that truth can be known and by implication denying Christ who is Truth; to the misguided theology and praxis of the “seeker-sensitive movement” that exchanges Christo-centric worship for man-centered entertainment and titillation, designed and produced to amuse the unregenerate, feeding the goats while starving the sheep; and to the Later Rain movement’s self-appointed “apostles” who arrogantly proclaim a new “Word of the Lord”, uttering delusions amongst the gullible with insatiable appetites. Evidence of the distance the Church has wandered from the truth of Scripture is recognized by the hostile reaction by the many to few who dare question the teachings and doctrines found in extra-biblical non-authoritative resources in the form of Christian books, seminars, DVD’s, CD’s, etc. Many Christians unwittingly have elevated these to the position of papal inerrancy—anathema! Cast aside the yoke of slavery and return to the Word of the Lord and the simplicity of Christ, “Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings” (Hebrews 13:9).

    Copyright 2009 Immutable Word Ministry (“…the Word of our God stands forever. Isa 40:8)

    Maybe he is telling mt to stop the discussions…

  16. I’m familiar with Matteson and ‘The Faith Defenders’. I check on that blog from time to time.

  17. TimH

    OK… Here is a complete change of topic. I am going to be a Grandpa today. My daughter went into the hospital last night at 12 midnight to give birth to a baby girl (Hannah Joy). We are excited to say the least.

    My wife is there now and I will be going over as soon as they call me and tell me it is close. Yahoo, Yipee I am one excited guy!!!!!!!

  18. desean jones

    Tim,
    Congratulations! That is great. I will be praying for a safe delivery. darlene S

  19. TimH

    Thank you… 10:03 West Coast Time weighing in at 8 pds 2 ounces and 21 inches Hannah Joy has entered into our lives. We thank God for this life and pray that she will one day come to know Jesus as her savior.

  20. How about a “Purpose Driven Death” as in I must die of my old self……….

    Hey guys, welcome back to wordpress, hahahaha,lol

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