WWJD? What would Joyner do?

It just gets better and better. I know this is old news but I can’t let it go with out comment. These guys are living in delusion city. As far as I can tell Todd got tired from revivalin and got so burnt out that he had to divorce his wife and marry his emotional adulteress. No big deal though cause all he needs is some sabbath rest and he can stay in adultery as well as be restored to ministry cause hey we have to restore all fallen ministers who aren’t repentant. The Bible says so.



Filed under charismatic

14 responses to “WWJD? What would Joyner do?

  1. Tim H

    CHAPTER 11
    Travelling teachers — Apostles — Prophets

    1 Whosoever then comes and teaches you all these things aforesaid, receive him. 2 But if the teacher himself be perverted and teach another doctrine to destroy these things, do not listen to him, but if his teaching be for the increase of righteousness and knowledge of the Lord, receive him as the Lord.

    3 And concerning the Apostles and Prophets, act thus according to the ordinance of the Gospel. 4 Let every Apostle who comes to you be received as the Lord, 5 but let him not stay more than one day, or if need be a second as well; but if he stay three days, he is a false prophet. 6 And when an Apostle goes forth let him accept nothing but bread till he reach his night’s lodging; but if he ask for money, he is a false prophet.

    7 Do not test or examine any prophet who is speaking in a spirit, “for every sin shall be forgiven, but this sin shall not be forgiven.” 8 But not everyone who speaks in a spirit is a prophet, except he have the behaviour of the Lord. From his behaviour, then, the false prophet and the true prophet shall be known.

    9 And no prophet who orders a meal in a spirit shall eat of it: otherwise he is a false prophet. 10 And every prophet who teaches the truth, if he do not what he teaches, is a false prophet.

    11 But no prophet who has been tried and is genuine, though he enact a worldly mystery of the Church, if he teach not others to do what he does himself, shall be judged by you: for he has his judgment with God, for so also did the prophets of old. 12 But whosoever shall say in a spirit `Give me money, or something else,’ you shall not listen to him; but if he tell you to give on behalf of others in want, let none judge him.

    I love it, straight from the DIDACHE:
    The Teaching of the Twelve Apostles

  2. For some reason Joyner seems much more threatening than Bentley. I guess its the affable, papa-bearish, like-ability factor…he just ‘feels’ more sincere. That is scary. Bentley is such an obvious stooge that I am actually saddened for him. He reminds me of the small-time, trailer park, crystal meth pusher who takes the fall for the real dealers.

  3. jarrod

    good analogy.

  4. Diane S.

    In all fairness, this sort of thing is common in other Christian camps as well, not just in Charismania.

    The steps are the same – A public ministry, sin and resulting scandal, then after the outcry dies down, a book is published explaining their side of the story. When that is well received, resume a ministry or musical career, and everything is just fine. Business as usual.

  5. jarrod

    Can I get more than one example of someone super public ? Cause I been around and while i do see other camps “restore ” fallen ministers it is rare that I find them to be quite this public or unashamed of their sin.

  6. hopesome

    The whole thing is mockery and more mockery. Real redemption is being stripped naked from every hope you have and taking on only that which is gifted by and for the Fathers love. Rick Joyner is trying to be all things to all peoples and leaving behind him a lord who is in jeopardy of becoming a has been not a ‘now ‘. It makes me boil to see this played out in the name of Jesus. Todd is having his ‘strings’ pulled by Joyners desire for supremacy in the so called christian world that is to become America. LORD HAVE MERCY AND PROTECT US FROM NIHILISM’S ( ie make the world a negative place so that I can’come’ in and be the saviours hope). BLIND WE SHALL NOT BE TO THE HIDDEN ONES.

  7. Diane S.


    Sandi Patti, Amy Grant, Michael English, Gordon MacDonald, are ones I can think of off-hand. I could probably come up with more if I had more time to think about it.

    I agree though, that it appears that the only thing Todd is repentant about is not spending enough personal time with God, not about dumping his wife & kids for another woman.

  8. jarrod


    Sandi Patti, Amy Grant, Michael English, Gordon MacDonald,

    Thanks, the only one that I have even heard of was Amy Grant. I do get your point. truth is it is not ok to excuse anyone in adultery or any other sin if they are going to continue in it. I have the same feelings for any group within the “church” who takes these kind of things and handles them the way I am seeing Bentley get handled. Its not just bad for the church , but it isbad for ol Todd as well.

  9. Diane S.

    I agree totally…There is never an excuse for continuing in sin! Unfortunately, many people think that Biblical restoration means the offender steps back in the same position one held before the scandal, and people are to pretend that nothing happened.

    In my former church, the Prayer Ministry Director, admitted to being a drug addict, who stole drugs to support his habit. The Pastor thought he should be reinstated only 6 months after the scandal. I don’t see any evidence in the New Testament that this was protocol. As a matter of fact, such behavior disqualified people from ministry.

    I suspect that people miss the buzz of spiritual ecstasy, and want it back, and are willing to reinstate whoever provided it. If the gifts are flowing, who is to question the minister?

  10. jarrod

    Sadly I agree with you. It indeed does happen all too often.

  11. The latest Joyner apologetic is even better


    Joyner likens them to David and Bathsheeba.

    And a transcription of bentley’s MSoG sermon at morningstar is up at

    It took me a full year before I could bear to watch the DVD and write it down. But Todd is back and ministering NOW. (See his blog – book signing turns into “prophetic ministry and impartation.”

    BAMM! Sheeka-Boomba!

  12. Todd Bentley

    OK, I’m not really Todd, but that got your attention, didn’t it? OK. Play along with me.

    Did I ever tell you about the time God showed me that Shonna was the most perfect woman for me?

    (cue dream sequence music)

    “…the Lord had actually shown me an open vision of Shonnah. It was my first open-eyed vision. I was in my living room and my fireplace opened up, kind of like a TV screen, and I saw us embracing in a wheat field that was ready for harvest. We were both weeping and I was wearing a tux and she was wearing a wedding dress. As the vision unfolded, her friend Roswetta (who was now my friend) was talking with me in the living room about Shonnah. I described the open vision to her as it happened. The presence of the Lord fell and we both wept. Roswetta said, ‘I can’t see it but I can feel goose bumps.’ During this vision, I also received an anointing of creativity, poetry and writing. In fact, I even received a three-page prophetic poem that I read at our wedding. I still write prophetic poems for my wife to this day.”

    Well, I don’t trust those pesky open-vision dreams anymore. No siree-Bob! As for the poems, Jessa much prefers nursery rhymes. Oh, and she also likes prophetic gunplay.

  13. David Bauman

    This is a sad circus that should stop. The analogy of David and Basheba is OT and does not correlate with NT standfards for leaders. The most telling comment from the new Mrs.Bentley is. “we did not know what do WITH Shonna.” Good grief.

  14. TimH

    Subject: [revival] KUNDALINI WARNING – URGENT – Andrew Strom
    Date: Thu, 14 Jan 2010 07:57:37 -0600
    From: REVIVAL List

    -by Andrew Strom.

    I just saw the video of Rick Joyner announcing that Todd Bentley
    is back ministering every night at Morningstar in North Carolina
    and now they have so-called “revival” manifestations eerily similar
    to Lakeland. They also announced that they are streaming these
    big meetings every night on their new TV channel – and they are
    greatly promoting the whole thing.

    Now I am a tongues-speaking Pentecostal myself – but can I ask
    a simple question here please? What kind of “spirit” was it
    operating in the Lakeland revival – when the leader and main focal-
    point of the meetings (Todd Bentley) was having an adulterous
    affair behind the scenes? Was it truly the “Holy” Spirit that was
    anointing something so sensual and unholy? And now that Todd
    divorced his wife and married his mistress – are we supposed to
    welcome him back and this “anointing” with him? What is going
    on here? Rick Joyner has been warned very specifically by high-
    level ministries not to do what he is doing now – bringing Todd
    Bentley back into the limelight. And yet it seems he does not
    care. Apparently the “manifestations” are all that matter.

    So what exactly are these ‘manifestations’ if they are seemingly
    at home in such an unholy environment? Are they from God at
    all? (I am talking here about the violent “jerking”, uncontrollable
    laughter, bodily contortions, drunkenness, ‘portals’, strange “angel”
    encounters, etc.) Why do we not see such an ‘anointing’ in the
    Bible? Why aren’t Jesus or the apostles promoting these
    manifestations if they really are true Revival? Why instead do we
    see these things all the way through the New Age and Hinduism,
    etc? Do we not realize that many false religions have their own
    version of “laying on of hands” that results in these very types of
    manifestations? This ‘spirit’ is not in the Bible – but it is all the
    way through Kundalini-type Hinduism! Don’t you think this should
    alarm us?


    If you search for Kundalini and Shakti on the Internet, you will find
    that multitudes of people in the New Age and Eastern religions
    still experience these powerful manifestations. Often this is with
    the help of a Guru, who touches them on the forehead so that
    they can experience a “Kundalini Awakening”.

    As researcher Robert Walker wrote in 1995:
    “The meetings which mystic Hindu gurus hold are called ‘Darshan’.
    At these meetings devotees go forward to receive spiritual experience
    from a touch by the open palm of the hand, often to the forehead,
    by the guru in what is known as the Shakti Pat or divine touch.
    The raising of the spiritual experience is called raising Kundalini…
    After a period when the devotee has reached a certain spiritual
    elevation they begin to shake, jerk, or hop or squirm uncontrollably,
    sometimes breaking into uncontrolled animal noises or laughter
    as they reach an ecstatic high. These manifestations are called
    ‘Kriyas’. Devotees sometimes roar like lions and show all kinds
    of physical signs during this period. Often devotees move on to
    higher states of spiritual consciousness and become inert
    physically and appear to slip into an unconsciousness…”

    And as the guru Shri Yogãnandji Mahãrãja wrote:
    “When Your body begins trembling, hair stands on roots, you laugh
    or begin to weep without your wishing, your tongue begins to utter
    deformed sounds, you are filled with fear or see frightening visions…
    the Kundalini Shakti has become active.”

    In China there is a popular Kundalini-type movement called ‘Qigong’.
    When a Chinese Qigong spiritual master spoke in the USA in
    1991, the San Francisco Chronicle reported that many in the crowd
    began to experience “spontaneous movements”. The master told
    his audience, “Those who are sensitive might start having some
    strong physical sensations – or start laughing or crying. Don’t worry.
    This is quite normal.”

    When you see videos of these “kriyas” or other Kundalini-type
    manifestations, you would often swear that you are watching a
    modern “Impartation”-type church meeting. (And I say this as
    someone who believes strongly in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. I just
    don’t believe in “alien” anointings infiltrating the Body of Christ!
    There is a big difference between Kundalini and the real Holy Spirit).

    Since 1993-4, I believe a foreign spirit has been allowed to invade
    the church – first through Rodney Howard-Browne’s ministry – then
    Toronto, then the Prophetic movement (which I was part of at the
    time) and on into Lakeland and many other ministries and
    movements. I urge people now to “test the spirits” just as we are
    commanded to in Scripture. Do not let just anyone lay hands on
    you. This is a powerful spirit and it has the backing of a lot of
    big-name ministries. In fact, these men and women are the very
    ones responsible for allowing it to spread right through the body
    of Christ. And one day they will be answerable to God for doing so.

    We are specifically warned in the Bible that the Last Days will be
    a time of “seducing spirits,” false prophets, ‘lying signs and
    wonders,’ and that we always need to watch for “angels of light”
    masquerading as the real thing. Why does the modern church
    not take these warnings seriously? Aren’t we living in the very
    days that the Bible warns about?

    Right now I need to do something that I have never done in such
    a way before. I have never before published a list of ministries or
    movements to watch out for. But this time I have to. This sickness
    has gone on long enough. I urge you to cut yourself off from
    the following ministries and their tainted “anointings” my friends.
    Even though some of these people say “good things” at times, it
    is simply not worth having any involvement with them due to the
    tainted anointing that they endorse or minister in themselves. Here
    is the list-

    (1) Todd Bentley.
    (2) Rodney Howard Browne – the so-called “Holy Ghost Bartender.”
    (2) Rick Joyner or anyone connected with Morningstar Ministries.
    (3) John Arnott & any connected with TACF (The “Toronto Blessing”).
    (4) Peter Wagner of the ‘New Apostolic Reformation’ who claims
    to be head of a worldwide network of ‘apostles’ – who publicly
    endorsed Lakeland and will soon preach at Toronto TACF alongside
    other “false anointing” advocates.
    (5) Mike Bickle and IHOP Kansas City (-I lived nearby for over
    two years – and know how much they are into all this stuff. Mike
    Bickle promotes it in his book).
    (6) Bob Jones – the Kansas City prophet whose ministry is utterly
    tainted by it all.
    (7) Patricia King and anyone else from ‘Extreme Prophetic.’
    (8) John Crowder & anyone connected with “Sloshfest.”
    (9) Bill Johnson of Bethel church, Redding – who says some good
    things but publicly endorsed Lakeland and promotes the “false
    anointing” very strongly behind the scenes.
    (10) Heidi & Rolland Baker of IRIS Ministries – who do good work
    amongst the poor in Mozambique – but who have also carried
    and promoted this tainted anointing for years.
    (11) Randy Clark, Wes & Stacey Campbell, and other key
    figures from the “Toronto blessing.”
    (12) The Elijah List – and almost anyone featured on it.

    Of course there are a huge number of lesser-known preachers
    and ministries who carry or endorse this Kundalini-type “anointing”
    around the world. But I have concentrated here on the most
    influential that I know of. It really is an enormous issue in the
    church. I urge anyone who is a supporter of any of the above
    ministries to really check them out thoroughly. If you find (as I have)
    that they carry or endorse this false Kundalini spirit in the church,
    then please stop supporting them in any way – and whatever you
    do, don’t let them “lay hands” on you!

    I am putting everything on the line to be “naming names” like this.
    But I believe it is that serious. How on earth did we get to the point
    where “kriyas” just like Hinduism are spreading through the church?

    Please forward this email to everyone you know, blogs and boards,
    etc. These people are trying to “relaunch” this whole thing right
    now. Help us get this warning out. To see a video showing “kriyas”
    and other Kundalini-type manifestations, please click on the
    Youtube links below-

    Please send feedback on this article to- prophetic@revivalschool.com

    God bless you all!

    Andrew Strom.

    YES! – You have permission to post these emails to friends
    or other groups, boards, etc – unless there is something
    different written in the Copyright notice above.

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