Tag Archives: false prophecy

What is wrong with Historical revisionism ?

“A people without a heritage is easily persuaded.” Carl Marx

If one can change the past he can make men believe anything in the present. What is the past anyway ? How important is it ? If you answered not very then allow me to correct you. See what we know of the past always effects what we believe in the right now.  Let me see if I can flesh out what I just said. Lets say you ran a ministry that was questionable in the past, and lets say that some other guy wrote a huge document on many of the questionable things you practiced. Now lets say through some insane stroke of luck that this guy backs off , but the document still stands. What to do ? What to do ? The answer is simple lay low for a bit , chill for a while until things die down and then do a bit of historical revision. For the sake of argument we will pretend that after a few years a rumor starts to circulate that the guy who wrote this document recanted everything he said and admitted to being a deciever. Well that settles that the newer generation who have no memoryof the document will totally be put at ease by this rumor and hey even some of the older folks will believe it. You know what the funny thing about the speck of white that covers chicken crap is ? Its still chicken crap. If you are gonna rewrite your history you had better work real hard to cover up all your loose ends. Lets say you start a  ministry and you are using all these prophet guys to endorse your work hey one guy even writes a book called ” Some say we plundered” in which all the fullfilments of said prophecies are documented . Now lets say some random guy writes a big letter showing how you have fudged the facts and that real history shows different. What to do ? What to do ? I know do the same thing as before. It’ll work I promise it will. You know all historical revisionism is , is lying. I mean think about it. Lets say little Johnny breaks the lamp in the living room. When he is confronted he says ” Ididn’t break the lamp mommy it just fell” what is Johnny trying to do ? revise and remake an event in the past to get mommy to believe a lie in the present. It’s an age old trick in fact if we are honest we are all pretty apt at revising history to suit our selves. This should not surprise us we learned the lesson from the begining when the first reviser of history spoke to our ancestors “Did God indeed say…” Yet sometimes real history doesn’t seem that important. Oh but it is. Christianity is a historical faith based on real historical events if not then it’s a big scam and we are all duped and to be pitied. One of our great confidences lies in the integrity of the apostles, that they weren’t revising history. But the Apostles of the movement I have been talking about do it all the time.  Julies story  https://thegreycoats.wordpress.com/2010/01/14/julies-story/ helps to point that out. so does the Gruen document as well as the vindication of Gruen. Bottom line when we revise history we are lying and thats wrong. God is not the father of lies that title belongs to someone else.  A tree is indeed known by its fruit, so look at the whole tree it’s been around for many years it has come andgone in and out of season a few times promising great harvest and yet each time it just leaves shipwrecks and has to revise its history. over the next few months I am gonna try like heaven to show How all these cats are linked together. How all of their doctrine and experience has happened in the past and what it turned into. After all I am a huge fan of historical theology .  My request is simple . Read, read , read. Don’t put the blinders on because they pray all the time. So do all kinds of other folks out there. It doesn’t mean your movement is good stuff. Heck it doesn’t even mean you are depending on God , it may mean you are trying to fill the payment bowls to get him to move his divine muscles. lastly pray , pray , pray. lets see what we can find.

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WWJD? What would Joyner do?

It just gets better and better. I know this is old news but I can’t let it go with out comment. These guys are living in delusion city. As far as I can tell Todd got tired from revivalin and got so burnt out that he had to divorce his wife and marry his emotional adulteress. No big deal though cause all he needs is some sabbath rest and he can stay in adultery as well as be restored to ministry cause hey we have to restore all fallen ministers who aren’t repentant. The Bible says so.

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Those who refuse to learn from the past…

In light of the past few videos that I have posted I thought it might be a good idea to revisit what Dutch Sheets had to say about the leadership of the Charismatic movement and their lack of discernment. When will they stop making the same mistakes over and over again. It’s like watching a bad Christianised version of Groundhog day.

) We, the leaders of the charismatic community, have operated in
an extremely low level of discernment. Frankly, we often don’t even
try to discern. We assume a person’s credibility based on gifts,
charisma, the size of their ministry or church, whether they can
prophesy or work a miracle, etc. (Miracles and signs are intended
to validate God and His message, not the messenger; sometimes
they validate the assignment of an individual, but never the
person’s character, lifestyle or spiritual maturity.) We leaders in
the Church have become no different than the world around us in
our standards for measuring success and greatness. This has
contributed to the body of Christ giving millions of dollars to
undeserving individuals; it has allowed people living in sin to
become influential leaders—even to lead movements, allowing
them influence all the way to the White House. Through our lack
of discernment we built their stages and gave them their platforms.
We have been gullible beyond words—gullible leaders producing
gullible sheep. When a spiritual leader we’re connected with
violates trust, is exposed for immorality or falls below other
accepted standards of behavior, it does not exonerate us simply
to say we don’t condone such behavior. Those we lead trust us to
let them know whom to trust. We have failed them miserably in
this regard. For this lack of discernment, and for employing and
passing on inappropriate standards of judgment, I repent to the
Lord and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

2) We, the leaders of the charismatic church, spin our involvement
and fail to acknowledge our responsibility when other leaders fall—
all of which stems from our self-preservation and pride. Enough of
the spin—we’re no different than Washington, DC. Every time
another embarrassing and disgraceful situation is exposed, the
dancing begins. It seems that no one bears any real responsibility
except the man or woman who actually commits sin. Incredibly,
we even blame “revival” itself—the pressures, attacks, weariness,
the “revival is messy” argument, etc., saying it is responsible for
the failures. This is disgusting. Those of us on boards of fallen
leaders, those who helped give them a voice, put them on TV,
published and endorsed their books (yes, I have), etc., are not
exonerated simply by saying we don’t condone the wrong behavior
or that we didn’t know. We’re supposed to know. I don’t believe
anyone is expecting perfection from us—I know I’m not. We’re far
too human for that. But we are expected to have enough humility
to look the world and those who follow us in the eye when we miss
it and say, “we were wrong and we are sorry.” Our careless
accountability has caused the body of Christ to be spiritually
raped and abused. It has produced disillusionment and brought
immeasurable reproach to our God and cynicism to His message.
Concerning Lakeland, what was called the “greatest revival since
Azusa Street” has become possibly one of the greatest
reproaches. We, the leaders of the charismatic church, are
responsible. For not accepting and acknowledging our
responsibility, for caring more about our own reputation than
Christ’s, I repent to God and ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

3) Our procedures and standards of accountability are incredibly
inadequate. We have provided camaraderie, not biblical
accountability. For those on Todd Bentley’s board who had
previous knowledge of his marriage problems and said nothing, it
was more than a mistake—it was reckless, foolish, and
irresponsible. For those on the stage the night of his aligning and
commissioning who knew and said nothing—ditto. For those there
who didn’t know, my question is, “why didn’t you?” You were
trusted to know. That is one of the purposes of public
commissioning and the purpose behind the concept of
endorsement. I’m not trying to point the finger; I’m endeavoring to
get us to be honest about our failures—we have serious credibility
issues. Have I ever laid hands on, commissioned or endorsed
anyone without adequately checking them out? Yes, but you
better believe I’ll be more careful next time! And we must not
single out Lakeland. We’re all guilty. What about the leader in my
city who ran with some of the leading spiritual fathers in our nation—
sincere and good men, I might add, and not all “charismatic”
leaders—who sang his praises and helped build his stage—all
while he was doing drugs and having sex with other men? But we
shouldn’t blame only the high profile cases—what about those of
us who unknowingly have had adulterers on our staffs or appointed
elders that turned out to have compromise in their life? Sounding
familiar yet? This is so epidemic that every member of the body of
Christ stands guilty—what pastor or leader did you follow that
turned out to have sin issues? What ministry did you support that
was unworthy? There is plenty of blame to go around. The big
question becomes not “who do we blame” but “how do we fix this
mess?” Leaders can live in sin—adultery, homosexuality, financial
wrongdoing, drugs, etc.—for years without it being realized. They
can offer completely unacceptable lifestyles for the body of Christ
to follow and still keep their TV programs and lavish lifestyles. In
the name of grace, compassion and forgiveness we have lowered
the standard so much that often there isn’t one. We have bought
into the lie that true discipline is “shooting our wounded.” We have
made a mockery of biblical restoration, making “ministry”—not
healthy individuals, marriages and families—its ultimate goal. The
fact is, integrity matters. No, we don’t need legalistic, pharisaical
standards, but we must have standards. For this lack of biblical
accountability, I repent to God and I ask forgiveness of the body of Christ.

4) We, the leaders of the charismatic church, have built on hype,
sensation, innovation, programs, personality and charisma. This
has produced: shallowness; false movements; novice leaders—
gifted but immature and untested; a deficient understanding of
God’s word; the building of man-centered rather than kingdom-
centered churches and ministries; competition rather than
cooperation; humanistic, self-centered Christians who don’t
understand sacrifice and commitment; Christians without
discernment; superstar leaders; a perverted and powerless gospel;
prayerless and anemic Christians; a replacement of the fear of the
Lord with the fear of man; and a young generation that is cynical
of it all. We are responsible, not the devil; he takes what we give
him. For this compromise in the way we build, for giving the
Church watered down wine, commercial Christianity, a flashy but
weak Church and hype disguised as anointing, I repent to God and
ask forgiveness of the body of Christ. Galatians 6:1-5 is an
appropriate reference with which to end this statement: “Brethren,
even if a man caught in any trespass, you who are spiritual,
restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; each one looking to
yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another’s burdens,
and thus fulfill the law of Christ. For if anyone thinks he is
something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each
one examine his own work, and then he will have reason for
boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another.
For each one shall bear his own load.” NAS

My passionate prayer is that God honors this repentance — I
believe He led me to do it and therefore, will—and uses it to begin
a process of cleansing and healing for all of us. In order for the
coming great awakening to bear maximum fruit we must have both,
as well as a course correction that sets us on a path of wisdom
leading to life. There is no doubt that past moves of God have been
aborted, ended prematurely and contained error or heresy that
have wounded, if not destroyed, many. The healing revival of the
40’s and 50’s, the charismatic movement, discipleship movement
and Jesus movement are all examples. My heart is to help shape
a movement, the fruit of which will last for decades — better yet,
forever. And I have great expectations for us—I am not a cynic.

.

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What dreams may come

First off I would like to thank IHOP for making their copy right the right to copy. I thought this might generate a bit of conversation and I would love to give it a bit of running commentary. With that said my comments will be in bold print in parentheses . Without further ado I give you Mike Bickle’s dream!

INTERNATIONAL HOUSE OF PRAYER, KANSAS CITY – MIKE BICKLE

Prophetic Dream: Victorious Church in the End Times (Rev. 12:7-12)

I.    PROPHETIC DREAM ON FEBRUARY 13, 2009

A.    I was speaking at a conference in a baseball park inside a large fairground. About 40,000 people were present—many leaders from different “charismatic” streams, and people from all these groups. I saw one particular leader who was representative of other leaders in the Body of Christ who seek to walk in God’s power and who have an excellent spirit. We were enjoying warm fellowship together.

B.    I preached on prayer, God’s power and end-time judgment. I spoke at two afternoon sessions. In the break between the sessions, people were debating what I was preaching. Some IHOP-KC people debated each other, while others were speaking to believers from different ministry streams. They were discussing God’s power and His end-time judgment in a friendly way; there was no hostility, only sincere dialogue with humility and love. It was enjoyable and intellectually stimulating but none of the different points of view stirred up real faith or revelation.

C.    Immediately as I finished the second session at 5 PM, I saw a token of a few of the events that John prophesied in Revelation 12:7-9 when war breaks out in heaven between Satan and Michael the archangel, resulting in Satan being cast to the earth at the beginning of the Tribulation.

(I thought Jesus said he already saw satan fall from heaven after he sent forth the 72…oh well my mistake obviously the war has yet to break out in heaven and Satans fall begins the tribulation hmmm…more on this later)

7 And war broke out in heaven: Michael and his angels fought with the dragon; and the dragon and his angels fought, 8 but they did not prevail, nor was a place found for them in heaven any longer. 9 So the great dragon was cast out, that serpent of old, called the Devil and Satan…he was cast to the earth, and his angels were cast out with him… (Rev. 12:7-9)

D.    I did not see Satan—I saw demonic principalities being cast to the earth. They looked like large snakes (over 100 yards long and 50 feet thick), each having a huge head that looked like a dragon, and many of them were coming from the sky down to the earth.

E.    Everyone at the conference was filled with panic; most were terrified. No one had understanding or faith that was mature enough to respond in the power or confidence that I had just preached on, myself included. I ran as I felt the terror of the event. The leaders and their people were terrified; everyone wanted to get out of the fairground quickly. Most people were in confusion, including those from IHOP-KC.

F.    These snake-like demonic principalities and the demonic hosts with them were filled with rage against the people. They were angry and even humiliated about being confined to the earth. Satan’s rage is related to the short amount of time he has before going to prison (Rev. 20:1-3).

12 Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and the sea! For the devil has come down to you, having great wrath (fury), because he knows that he has a short time…17 The dragon was enraged… he went to make war with the rest…who have the testimony of Jesus… (Rev. 12:12, 17)

G.    Soot like wet, muddy, thick ash was raining down from the sky. It darkened the sky as it fell on the people who were running. I ran out of the vast fairground to the park offices at the entrance. Wet ash was all over me as I ran. Many did not get out; they were bitten by the large snakes.

H.    There were evil policeman at the entrance. They told me, “You have to go back into the fairground or we will put you in jail.” They were callous about the danger I would face if I went back into the fairground. Then I understood that they were part of the Antichrist’s system. I was in a dilemma. I thought, “I just escaped from the most intense danger imaginable and now I have to go back in!” There will be no natural way out of this crisis—the only way will be by the power of the Spirit.

I.    When standing by the police I thought, “I wish IHOP had taken the events in Revelation 12 more seriously in the early days, and had prepared more urgently when we had time. I said to myself, “The debate about power is much bigger than the power we actually walk in.” I woke up with an urgency that the IHOP leadership needs greater zeal to walk in the things of the Spirit. (Catch this phraseit is an important one)

J.    After I woke up, I understood that fear and confusion will NOT be the condition of the entire Body of Christ when the events of Revelation 12:7 literally occur. Many will have understanding and be in a place of mature faith. The Lord was showing me what it would be like if these events happened today with the Church in its current condition (being unprepared in understanding and faith).

K.    The message of the dream was that we at IHOP need to be more urgent in going deep in our walk with Jesus, in growing in faith to operate more in the Holy Spirit right now, and in “eating the scroll” in order to have much more understanding now and in that specific hour.

( still not ready yet ?This omega generation is getting older see,and the things promised to it aren’t taking place so we have to chalk it up to their immaturity and lack of depth. Better watch your kids folks the next generation has got to be the deeper chosen they will get it right eventually. I will say this  he is right in Ihop needing to grow in its understanding of things.)

20 The anger of the LORD will not turn back until He has executed and performed the thoughts of His heart. In the latter days you will understand it perfectly. (Jer. 23:20)

L.    I felt strongly that IHOP and other streams in the Body of Christ have “empty” arguments about power and their insight into the end-time drama. Most arguments, in either direction, do not actually prepare people to go deeper in Jesus, His Word and Spirit. They are not helpful—rather, they are empty.

(here you have it Ihops arguments are empty there is no basis to believe anything they say their arguments have for the endtimes and for their version of “power” are empty and dont take you deeper with Jesus)

M. In this dream, the Lord was warning me to set my face toward Him and His Word and to refuse the temptation to invest time in seeking to look wise to others. What is coming is so much more intense than we imagine. Even those with the most insight do not understand the intensity of the events in Revelation 12:7-12.

N.    The point of the dream: neither the IHOP leadership nor I are mature enough in our understanding to entertain debates and casual arguments that will arise much more in the Church in the future.

(In which case you are not mature enough to truly lead. This is just another cop out for not wanting to give an answer for poor doctrine and practice. Its empty, its wrong, but we have no maturity for disscussion on these matters.)

O.    The “now” word of God must be confirmed with power. The only way to be culturally relevant in society is to move in power to confirm the Word. Without this, many in the Church are looking for ministries with trendy language and clothes, interesting technology, or to talk about current affairs together. Many are trapped in an abyss of entertainment.

P.    We will only penetrate that bubble by power and the real fear of the Lord. People will not get free from the vice of our pop culture without it. People must walk away from their gatherings knowing that He is involved in their lives in power. We must experience manifestation of His majesty that makes us tremble, and be moved to repentance and servanthood by His kindness.

(Jesus said blessed are them that do not see yet believe. faith based on power encounters can very often prove shallow and unable to sustain itself without seeing more signs. I think we witnessed that with the Lakeland phenom. The miracle of regeneration is the only true power that can ensure the preserverance of the saint of God. KNOWING HIM is the only way to escape the bubble for knowing Him is eternal life not seeing His power alone but knowing God as He reveals Himself in Jesus Christ.)

II.    A LITERAL WAR WILL BREAK OUT IN HEAVEN IN THE END TIMES

A.    Some teach that the war in heaven described in Revelation 12:7 occurred at the cross and that Satan is now confined to the earth. Satan’s host operates in the heavenly places in this age.

12 We do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against principalities…against the rulers of the darkness…against spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places. (Eph. 6:12)

B.    Christ defeated Satan at the cross. However, the full scope of His victory has not yet been fully manifested on earth. This is the “already and not yet” paradox of the kingdom in operation. At Christ’s ascension, Jesus was seated at God’s right hand, far above all authority (Eph. 1:20-22). Jesus disarmed the demonic powers and made a public spectacle of them (Col. 2:15).

C.    The windows of  heaven will be opened and demonic principalities will be punished. Demonic spirits and evil kings will be put in prison, like Satan, as prophesied by Isaiah.

18 The windows from on high are open, and the foundations of the earth are shaken. 19 The earth is violently broken…the earth is shaken exceedingly…20 Its transgression shall be heavy upon it…21 In that day that the LORD will punish on high the host of exalted ones (demonic principalities), and on the earth the kings of the earth. 22 They (demons and kings) will be gathered together, as prisoners are gathered in the pit (bottomless pit), and will be shut up in the prison (Rev. 20:1-3); after many days (1,000 years) they will be punished (Lake of Fire)…the LORD of hosts will reign on Mount Zion (Millennium)… (Isa. 24:18-23)

D.    One of the most unique dynamics of the Tribulation is that Satan and all his demons will be cast to the earth (Rev. 12:9) and Satan will give his throne to the Antichrist (Rev. 13:2). Hundreds of millions of demons now in the bottomless pit will be released (Rev. 9:3, 16). Billions will be engaged in Satan worship. There will be more demonized people on earth than at any time in history.

2 The dragon (Satan) gave him (Antichrist) his power, his throne … (Rev. 13:2)

21 There will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world…22 Unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved… (Mt. 24:21-22)

E.    The saints will overcome Satan in the Tribulation by the blood of Jesus, by their testimony and their commitment to Jesus, even unto death.

10 I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, “Now salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of His Christ have come, for the accuser of our brethren…has been cast down. 11 They overcame him (Satan) by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony, and they did not love their lives to the death. (Rev. 12:10-11)

F.    The praying Church will overcome Satan and the Antichrist (Rev. 12:11; 15:2; 2:7, 11, 17, 26; 3:5, 12, 21; 21:7). The miracles of Exodus and Acts will be combined and multiplied on a global level. Fear need NOT dominate our spirit and extinguish our faith. We need not fear the Tribulation as powerless victims seeking to escape it.

(the word says clearly that it will be given to the beast to overcome the saints for a time. sorry no false promises truth is the beast will overcome the church and kill us, but when Christ returns his little party will be over. Christ not the church will defeat the anti Christ which is fitting i think. what is going to happen when all these miracles Mike is talking about don’t happen and the church is getting its face kicked in by the beast.? where will all the triumphalism be then? who will feel abandoned by God in those days when by His decree the beast begins to overcome the church. this man promises peace when there will be no peace.)

12 The works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do… (Jn. 14:12)

G.    End-time believers will engage in the prayer of faith to bind and loose according to God’s will. This passage will be fulfilled on earth in the Tribulation by a victorious Church operating in power:

18 On this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. (Mt. 16:18-19)

H.    The Antichrist will be the greatest oppressor the world has ever seen. Isaiah 42 is one of the main passages about the Second Coming; it emphasizes justice. People do not rejoice in judgment until an oppressor is in power. Jesus will bring justice to the earth in the context of the Antichrist’s oppression.

I.    Jesus will only confront the oppressor to the measure that the prayers of the saints ascend in faith. (this is not what scripture says notice how he adds words to scripture in parentheses to help you see his interpretation. When Jesus confronts the beast it is in response to His triumphant return the idea that He wont come back till we fill the bowls is not biblical the day has been preordained by His father from the beggining. Why then does Jesus ask “but when the son of man returns will he find faith like this on the earth?” according to Mike not only will Jesus find it but He will find it in abundance. silly Jesus for asking such a ludicrus question.)

4 The prayers of the saints, ascended before God…5 Then the angel took the censer, filled it with fire from the altar, and threw it to the earth… (Rev. 8:4-5)

7 Shall God not avenge (bring justice) His own elect who cry out day and night to Him…8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily (in the Tribulation). (Lk. 18:7-8)

J.    The most dramatic events in world history will occur in the context of the greatest prayer movement contending against the greatest oppression, to see the greatest justice movement fulfilled across the whole earth. What will be released in fullness then is released in part now.

III.    JESUS WILL SUPERNATURALLY HELP THE CHURCH COME TO VICTORY (REV. 14)

A.    The message of Revelation 14 is that Jesus will supernaturally anoint the Church to walk in victory.

B.    In Revelation 14:1-5, Jesus will stand on Mount Zion in Jerusalem with 144,000 prophetic singers. Revelation 14:6-13 reveals four prophetic promises and proclamations that the Spirit will release conviction on; He will confirm them with signs and wonders to strengthen His people.

1.    In Revelation 14:6-7, we will receive angelic assistance and great power that we might succeed in preaching the gospel to all nations in the presence of hostility (Mt. 24:14; Rev. 7:9).

2.    In Revelation 14:8, the anointed proclamation of the defeat of the Harlot Babylon stirs our faith.

3.    In Revelation 14:9-11, the anointed proclamation of the certainty of eternal judgment coming on all who worship the Antichrist will embolden the saints to resist, even unto death.

4.    In Revelation 14:12-13, the anointed proclamation of the certainty of receiving eternal rewards for being faithful will strengthen the Church.

5.    In Revelation 14:14-20, we see two separate end-time harvests that will be released by prayer: the harvest of souls is seen in Revelation 14:14-16 and the harvest of sin in Revelation 14:17-20. These two harvests demonstrate the effectiveness of prayer in releasing power for salvation and the removal of evil.

be in bold letters .

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